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Question: Is Andy Murray in the Top 10 Clay Court Players
YES - 8 (34.8%)
NO - 15 (65.2%)
Total Voters: 23

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Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10?

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sickboy1888
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #30 on: April 18, 2013, 08:16 PM »
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In the intests of balance tried to look for grass court rankings but this was the only one that I could find.I haven't a clue how TennisInsight collates these rankings but intresting reading.Think the clay one are only for this year as they don't include Andy in it at all

I like the Grass ranking the best by the way




TennisInsight.com Grass Rankings (0.01 minimum handle) - last updated Apr 15 2013

 
 Pos. (Change)   Name (Country)     Rating (Change)  
 1.    Andy Murray (GBR)     6.15  
 2.    Novak Djokovic (SRB)     5.30 (-0.30)  
 3.    David Ferrer (ESP)     4.67  
 4.    Juan Martin del Potro (ARG)     4.67  
 5.    Roger Federer (SUI)     4.64  
 6.    Richard Gasquet (FRA)     4.35  
 7.    Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (FRA)     4.10 (-0.02)  
 8.    Kei Nishikori (JPN)     4.09  
 9.    Tomas Berdych (CZE)     4.05  
 10.    Radek Stepanek (CZE)     4.03 (+4.03)  
 11.    Marin Cilic (CRO)     3.84  
 12.    Rafael Nadal (ESP)     3.83  
 13.    Jerzy Janowicz (POL)     3.79 (+3.79)  
 14. (-4)   Tommy Haas (GER)     3.64 (-0.27)  
 15.    Philipp Kohlschreiber (GER)     3.44 (+3.44)  
 16.    Mardy Fish (USA)     3.31 (+3.31)  
 17.    Marcos Baghdatis (CYP)     3.23 (+3.23)  
 18.    Lleyton Hewitt (AUS)     3.16 (+3.16)  
 19. (-5)   Nicolas Almagro (ESP)     3.15 (+0.04)  
 20.    Xavier Malisse (BEL)     3.07 (+3.07)
 

TennisInsight.com Inddor Hard Rankings (0.19 minimum handle) - last updated Apr 15 2013  

 Pos. (Change)   Name (Country)     Rating (Change)  
 1.    Novak Djokovic (SRB)     5.61 (-0.15)  
 2.    David Ferrer (ESP)     5.17  
 3.    Roger Federer (SUI)     5.10  
 4.    Andy Murray (GBR)     4.84  
 5.    Tomas Berdych (CZE)     4.80  
 6.    Juan Martin del Potro (ARG)     4.70  
 7.    Richard Gasquet (FRA)     4.45  
 8.    Kei Nishikori (JPN)     4.24  
 9.    Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (FRA)     4.17 (-0.05)  
 10. (+1)   Milos Raonic (CAN)     3.92 (+0.02)  
 11.    Michael Llodra (FRA)     3.86 (+3.86)  
 12. (-2)   Tommy Haas (GER)     3.80 (-0.23)  
 13.    Kevin Anderson (RSA)     3.78 (+3.78)  
 14.    Radek Stepanek (CZE)     3.77 (+3.77)  
 15. (-3)   Stanislas Wawrinka (SUI)     3.70 (+0.03)  
 16.    Ernests Gulbis (LAT)     3.56 (+3.56)  
 17. (-4)   Gilles Simon (FRA)     3.47 (-0.12)  
 18. (-4)   Marin Cilic (CRO)     3.46  
 19. (-4)   Nicolas Almagro (ESP)     3.45  
 20.    Nikolay Davydenko (RUS)     3.35 (+3.35)
 


TennisInsight.com Carpet Rankings (0.1 minimum handle) - last updated Apr 15 2013
 
 Pos. (Change)   Name (Country)     Rating (Change)  
 1.    Roger Federer (SUI)     4.86  
 2.    Tomas Berdych (CZE)     4.61  
 3.    Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (FRA)     3.75 (-0.08)  
 4.    Richard Gasquet (FRA)     3.65  
 5.    Kevin Anderson (RSA)     3.58 (+3.58)  
 6.    Nikolay Davydenko (RUS)     3.47 (+3.47)  
 7. (-2)   Juan Martin del Potro (ARG)     3.43  
 8. (-2)   Milos Raonic (CAN)     3.41 (+0.01)  
 9.    Julien Benneteau (FRA)     3.39 (+3.39)  
 10.    Mikhail Youzhny (RUS)     3.36 (+3.36)  
 11.    Grigor Dimitrov (BUL)     3.28 (+3.28)  
 12. (-4)   David Ferrer (ESP)     3.24  
 13. (-4)   Marin Cilic (CRO)     3.22  
 14. (-7)   Gilles Simon (FRA)     3.20 (-0.15)  
 15.    Marcos Baghdatis (CYP)     3.16 (+3.16)  
 16.    Ernests Gulbis (LAT)     3.01 (+3.01)  
 17.    Michael Llodra (FRA)     2.87 (+2.87)  
 18.    Roberto Bautista Agut (ESP)     2.78 (+2.78)  
 19.    Bernard Tomic (AUS)     2.73 (+2.73)  
 20. (-10)   Janko Tipsarevic (SRB)     2.55  
 
 

TennisInsight.com Hard Court Rankings (0.15 minimum handle) - last updated Apr 15 2013
 
  Pos. (Change)   Name (Country)     Rating (Change)  
 1.    Novak Djokovic (SRB)     5.66 (-0.42)  
 2.    Roger Federer (SUI)     5.29  
 3.    Andy Murray (GBR)     5.20  
 4.    David Ferrer (ESP)     5.17  
 5.    Juan Martin del Potro (ARG)     4.82  
 6.    Tomas Berdych (CZE)     4.79  
 7.    Richard Gasquet (FRA)     4.48  
 8. (+2)   Kei Nishikori (JPN)     4.21  
 9.    Jo-Wilfried Tsonga (FRA)     4.20 (-0.08)  
 10. (+1)   Nicolas Almagro (ESP)     4.06 (-0.01)  
 11. (-3)   Tommy Haas (GER)     4.04 (-0.29)  
 12.    Stanislas Wawrinka (SUI)     3.94 (-0.01)  
 13.    Radek Stepanek (CZE)     3.91 (+3.91)  
 14.    Michael Llodra (FRA)     3.82 (+3.82)  
 15. (-2)   Milos Raonic (CAN)     3.74 (-0.06)  
 16. (-2)   Marin Cilic (CRO)     3.60  
 17.    Ernests Gulbis (LAT)     3.58 (+3.58)  
 18.    Nikolay Davydenko (RUS)     3.56 (+3.56)  
 19.    Kevin Anderson (RSA)     3.39 (+3.39)  
 20.    Bernard Tomic (AUS)     3.30 (+3.30)



TennisInsight.com Clay Rankings (0.11 minimum handle) - last updated Apr 15 2013

 
 Pos. (Change)   Name (Country)     Rating (Change)  
 1.    Rafael Nadal (ESP)     5.74  
 2.    David Ferrer (ESP)     5.14  
 3. (+1)   Marin Cilic (CRO)     4.21  
 4. (-1)   Nicolas Almagro (ESP)     4.13 (-0.17)  
 5.    Stanislas Wawrinka (SUI)     4.05 (-0.14)  
 6.    Kevin Anderson (RSA)     3.32 (+3.32)  
 7.    Ernests Gulbis (LAT)     3.21 (+3.21)  
 8.    David Nalbandian (ARG)     2.99 (+2.99)  
 9.    Gilles Simon (FRA)     2.94 (+2.94)  
 10.    Albert Ramos (ESP)     2.93 (+2.93)  
 11. (-5)   Juan Monaco (ARG)     2.92 (+0.02)  
 12.    Martin Klizan (SVK)     2.87 (+2.87)  
 13.    John Isner (USA)     2.84 (+2.84)  
 14. (-7)   Andreas Seppi (ITA)     2.81 (-0.05)  
 15.    Horacio Zeballos (ARG)     2.70 (+2.70)  
 16.    Bernard Tomic (AUS)     2.67 (+2.67)  
 17.    Daniel Gimeno-Traver (ESP)     2.62 (+2.62)  
 18.    Carlos Berlocq (ARG)     2.53 (+2.53)  
 19.    Fabio Fognini (ITA)     2.53 (+2.53)  
 20.    Tommy Robredo (ESP)     2.46 (+2.46)
 
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Ruthie
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #31 on: April 18, 2013, 09:54 PM »
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sickboy: interestingly 8 of those who are ranked above Andy on basis of last year's clay court season (ie the first set of rankings you posted) have gone out of MC also.  
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #32 on: April 18, 2013, 10:04 PM »
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The rankings say very little....Djoko not in top 20? lol...complete ********
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #33 on: April 18, 2013, 10:18 PM »
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The rankings say very little....Djoko not in top 20? lol...complete ********
lmao

I stopped reading when I saw Ferrer ranked above Federer and Murray on Hard.

The clay rankings for 2012 say a lot though.
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #34 on: April 18, 2013, 10:21 PM »
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What is over the top.. is over analysing Andy's clay court abilities this year based on 2 matches.

Loong way to go in the clay season.... If he exits all the other comps and then produces top form and wins the RGopen then everyone will be saying ...I told you so...see Andy has the game for clay.

Let'sjust wait see and analyse at the end of the clay season.
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Katie
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #35 on: April 18, 2013, 10:25 PM »
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Okay, let me put it another way. If Andy isn't in the top ten on clay how do you account for him getting to the semi's at the French in 2011, and doing the same in Monte Carlo, and (if I recall) Rome as well? His draws can't have been that favourable in all of the tournaments. He's never that lucky. I seem to remember in Rome in 2011 Andy nearly beat Djokovic, when Djokovic was having that great long run of wins, and no, Djokovic wasn't injured at the time. He also took it to Nadal in Monte Carlo that year.

His draws in the 2011 clay season really opened up for him. In Monte Carlo, he played Stepanek, Simon and Gil; in Rome he played Malisse, Starace and Mayer; and in RG he played Prodon, Bolelli, Berrer, Troicki and Chela. All winnable matches for Andy on any surface. It was very encouraging though how well he played against Rafa and Novak that season - he was so close to reaching a clay final for the first time in Rome.

The ATP Fedex statistics page for clay put him in 16th place overall and 14th place over the last year. I'm not sure exactly where I'd place him currently - probably somewhere between 8 and 15 when he's playing well.

I'm sure he'll improve in the coming weeks - Madrid is quicker than Monte Carlo so should suit his game quite well.
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sickboy1888
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #36 on: April 18, 2013, 10:26 PM »
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The rankings say very little....Djoko not in top 20? lol...complete ********

Yeah deffo the clay ones with Insight.com are not to be trusted .Looks like just rankings on clay this year hence why only Nadal and Ferrer are in them. But the official clay rankings are fair I think
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sickboy1888
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #37 on: April 18, 2013, 10:29 PM »
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Also a quiz question from my original point can you name players that Andy beat who were in the Top 10 (ATP Official all Surfaces rankings...)at the time on Clay

Daveydenko according to Barry Cowan the only one EVER  shocking
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #38 on: April 19, 2013, 12:27 AM »
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I think Andy is definitely in the top ten on clay.

I think the fact that he hasn't won a clay title skews things a bit for him. It automatically makes people assume he can't play on the surface, so that any time he then loses, like today, too much is made of it. However, think about it for a second. Through the year Andy plays the majors and Masters, obviously. On grass he'll also play Queen's, a 250, and he plays some, if not all, of the 500 hard court tournaments. What Andy doesn't do is play the small clay tournaments, some of which I think he would have won if he had played them through his career. It makes me wonder if somehow, and I don't know how, Andy would benefit from playing a couple of small clay tournaments in the year, to develop his clay game and build his confidence on the surface a bit.

I do think clay is the surface where Andy is most vulnerable, given that the heavy hitting and all out aggression style of play isn't his most natural instinct, and that does seem to be the way to get it done most often on the clay. However, even on the clay it takes a good performance to beat him, which is what Wawrinka put in today.

Yeah thats a fair point regarding Andy playing the smaller comps to build some confidence. Losing at any level has mostly a negative impact...

Even Nadal has used the smaller comps to build his confidence back...on clay. If its good enough for him it should be good enough for Andy.
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ProdigyEng
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #39 on: April 19, 2013, 12:46 AM »
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No he's god awful on clay, I think we should just accept that.
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teejay1
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #40 on: April 19, 2013, 12:49 AM »
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If you look at the top 30 players toady, apart from Andy and Tsonga (not counting players like Raonic, Nishikori, Janowicz etc.), almost all of them have won at least 1 clay title. Granted, not all of them have the same credential as Andy, but given that he’s been on the tour for a while now, I’d say at least early in his career, he could have won maybe a couple of small clay tournaments.


But he hasn't played the small clay tournaments, so he couldn't have won any.

I just think saying he ranks outside the top ten on clay, or even the 20, as a knee-jerk reaction to a bad day at the office isn't reflective of the truth. There are more natural clay courters than Andy, fair enough, but he can still beat a lot of players on the surface. I for one don't think Djokovic, on current form, would have got past Stan today,but no one is questioning his place in the game on the surface.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #41 on: April 19, 2013, 01:13 AM »
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But he hasn't played the small clay tournaments, so he couldn't have won any.

I just think saying he ranks outside the top ten on clay, or even the 20, as a knee-jerk reaction to a bad day at the office isn't reflective of the truth. There are more natural clay courters than Andy, fair enough, but he can still beat a lot of players on the surface. I for one don't think Djokovic, on current form, would have got past Stan today,but no one is questioning his place in the game on the surface.

Sorry but my post has nothing to do with Andy's loss today. I've already mentioned before this loss today that Sampras only won 3 clay titles in his entire career and made the RG semi only once. And the reason I brought it up was because I wanted to point out that Andy doesn't necessarily have to do great on clay as he has all other surfaces to do well. If he's not as good on clay as other surfaces then so be it.

The reason why I don't put him in top 10 or 20 is because Andy has no credential to be there so far. The fact that he chose not to play small clay tournaments is irrelevant. Frankly, I don't see why he hasn't so far when he has played similar small tournaments both on hard and clay. What does that tell us about his whole attitude towards clay I don't know. In any case, Andy doesn't have enough results on clay to claim he belongs in the top ten. He hasn't beaten any top players other than Davydenko in 2009; he hasn't won any clay titles; he has yet to make a clay final. I am not sure how all these results make him belong in the top 10. I'd have rated any other player the same way had they had similar results be it whoever on clay. In fact, it's a knee-jerk reaction from those who don't see it and think it's because of Andy's loss today that we don't rate him as high, when in reality, nothing can be further from the truth.

Anyway, that's all based on the past and present; this doesn't mean things will remain the same. Andy can very well take things to a different level.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #42 on: April 19, 2013, 01:21 AM »
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As to Djokovic, that's highly speculative. We have no way of knowing if Wawrinka would have beaten him.

Anyway, I am positive Andy will get better. One loss isn't going to stop him. Madrid may tell us a different story who knows. And there's RG but when it comes clay, I'd rather be more cautious than overly hopeful. I wouldn't want to expect too much from Andy and just wait and see. This is only the start of true clay season and a lot can happen in between.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #43 on: April 19, 2013, 07:02 AM »
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@sickboy
They were interesting, cheers...
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notnek
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Re: Andy Murray on Clay.Is he in the top 10? « Reply #44 on: April 19, 2013, 07:33 AM »
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Murray's 14th in the ATP reliability zone - sounds about right:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-Clay-Current-List.aspx

He's not even on the all time list (top 334 players) but I think that's a mistake.
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