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Author Topic: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November)  (Read 13791 times)
Ruthie
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Touch the sky - and touch it he did.

Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #540 on: November 03, 2012, 08:12 AM »
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I swear: if Milos and Janko are the next generation, I'm going to skip it.  C'mon Kei!
and Dimitrov

oh and according to the independent Tipsy apparently retired because of a sore throat.  Wot? Since when can someone not finish a match because of a sore throat.   confused  shocking   Can't be right surely?   But if he's going down with something could end up having to withdraw from 02 [having been beneficiary of Andy's withdrawal last year] and who would replace him?  I seem to remember Raonic and Monaco are tied in next place, but may have got that wrong.
[ Last edit by Ruthie November 03, 2012, 08:16 AM ] IP Logged
ChrisMac
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #541 on: November 03, 2012, 09:55 AM »
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Oh Ruthie don't mention Raonic to me!   nervous
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circe
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #542 on: November 03, 2012, 09:55 AM »
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and Dimitrov

oh and according to the independent Tipsy apparently retired because of a sore throat.  Wot? Since when can someone not finish a match because of a sore throat.   confused  shocking   Can't be right surely?   But if he's going down with something could end up having to withdraw from 02 [having been beneficiary of Andy's withdrawal last year] and who would replace him?  I seem to remember Raonic and Monaco are tied in next place, but may have got that wrong.

Gasquet and Almagro are the alternates, im that order.  But I'd be stunned if Tipsy doesn't show up in London looking fit as a fiddle  Whistle
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blueberryhill
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #543 on: November 03, 2012, 09:58 AM »
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Me too circe Frown
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Ruthie
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #544 on: November 03, 2012, 10:16 AM »
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Gasquet and Almagro are the alternates, im that order.  But I'd be stunned if Tipsy doesn't show up in London looking fit as a fiddle  Whistle
Thanks Circe - had a feeling I was having an Annabel Croft moment and getting it all wrong.  So unless they all go down like flies we're spared Raonic.
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circe
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #545 on: November 03, 2012, 10:29 AM »
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^ I certainly would. Would make my life a whole lot easier if he had a serve like that...

It's somewhat true though that these tall, big servers usually lack a great ground game and movement and rely on their serves far too heavily. But that doesn't go for Janowicz at all IMO. I thought he moved very well on court, especially for his height.

I get the feeling that some people on here despise whoever poses a challenge to Andy (at least if it's a younger/unproven player), because they don't like to see him lose. That's okay, but there is no need to insult players just because they posses a powerful serve. I'm not really a fan of that type of game either, but every player has his strengths and weaknesses.

The only thing I don't really like about Raonic is his arrogance in interviews. I thought he was a little disrespectful prior to the his USO matches against Andy and Blake, saying every match is on his raquet, basically. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, as he's still pretty young.

I think there is something in what you say about our feeling being coloured about players who beat Andy, but I think its more complicated than that.

For one, Murray fans are by self-selection, the type who prefer the variation players to the servers.  And while it's not fair to condemn players for natural gifts like gigantic physiques and powerhouse arms while seeing defensive natural gifts as more "virtuous," the former come off as getting "free" points which *feel* unfair.  

And for me that's what it comes down to.  As a tennis spectator, what gets my heart pumping is the uncertainty, the feeling that things could swing the other way any moment, that you're not safe til it's over.  When every game is 3 minutes of one-sidedness, I switch off.

I'm not in any type of denial that the new big servers will be Top 10 and very soon.  After all, nearly half the top 10 are over 30, and all are over 25.  It's just that I'm not seeing as many variation players coming with them, and for me, selfishly, I think their era of tennis dominance will therefore be very boring, like I found the Sampras era, and the Federer era before Nadal, Djoko and Andy to be.
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Katie
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Andy Murray - US Open and Wimbledon champion! :)

Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #546 on: November 03, 2012, 10:44 AM »
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I think a bit of variation is good in tennis, and big servers have their place there. I doubt whether they're going to become an era in themselves because usually the good returners will have success against them. And even against the not so good returners, losses in tiebreak sets happen often for the huge servers.

There's enough other young players coming through (Dimitrov, Harrison, Tomic, Nishikori) to suggest that the next era won't be serve-dominated.

On the subject of Tipsarevic, he's now retired 10 times while on the verge of losing. I've no problem with players retiring if they genuinely can't continue (e.g. an acute injury) but yesterday all he had to do was hit 4 serves into the net and the match would have been over. He definitely won't be winning the sportmanship award any time soon!
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circe
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #547 on: November 03, 2012, 10:52 AM »
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On the subject of Tipsarevic, he's now retired 10 times while on the verge of losing.
Yikes, that's a stat that speaks volumes.  I only really became aware of him this week, but my assessment of his style would be: fiery, with a mean streak.
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*Sparkle*
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #548 on: November 03, 2012, 11:12 AM »
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On the subject of Tipsarevic, he's now retired 10 times while on the verge of losing. I've no problem with players retiring if they genuinely can't continue (e.g. an acute injury) but yesterday all he had to do was hit 4 serves into the net and the match would have been over. He definitely won't be winning the sportmanship award any time soon!
It's outrageous.   If a player has turned their ankle, or pulled something that could be further harmed by any attempt to put weight, or run around, it's understandable, but when it's so close and something so vague, the honourable thing would be to play it out.  Even if it did just mean getting aced, or serving into the net, or underarm.

I've read someone say (perhaps on here?) that it's possible that in some of these matches he places large bets on himself to win.  By withdrawing before he loses, he can be sure he hasn't lost his stake.  Whether it's dodgy dealings, or poor sportsmanship, it's out of order.
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michelle
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #549 on: November 03, 2012, 12:20 PM »
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Re JJ now that his game has been seen by the other players,the top players will work out how to beat him. Andy had got his measure and if he hadn't lost focus would have won in 2 sets. I think if you can oppose yourself on him he doesn't go all out and get some lucky balls in. If Tipsy had kept up the same level of his game as in the first set it would have been a different result. I think he will be a top player in a few years but at the moment he is very raw, and a little like Gulbis who announced himself to the tour in a similar fashion he will have to keep working or he will drop down the ranking very quickly as Gulbis has. The big servers soon get put in their place once the great returners start reading them (Andy and Nole) You only have to remember Karlovic, he loses to the top players now and has done for a few years now. If the WTF wasn't following Paris so soon the results would have been very different.
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Katie
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Andy Murray - US Open and Wimbledon champion! :)

Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #550 on: November 03, 2012, 12:31 PM »
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I've read someone say (perhaps on here?) that it's possible that in some of these matches he places large bets on himself to win.  By withdrawing before he loses, he can be sure he hasn't lost his stake.  Whether it's dodgy dealings, or poor sportsmanship, it's out of order.
I've read that too - though it would be a hugely risky thing for him to do as the number of retirements would definitely make him a target for investigation. I think it's probably more likely that he's just a very bad loser - he even withdrew in the Eastbourne final against Seppi just before Seppi was about to serve for his first ever title.
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #551 on: November 03, 2012, 12:34 PM »
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I think that's true Michelle.   When a player comes from "nowhere", their strengths and weaknesses are not widely known, and when you come up against one unexpectedly in a Masters Series with less than 24 hours between matches, you aren't going to have much time to find out, and with a more important tournament the following week, you aren't going to let yourself get distracted.

Andy himself admitted that he'd had the opportunity to study Federer's game for many years before he first played him.  Andy should have been a bit more known to the senior players when he was propelling his way up the rankings, thanks to the Junior US Open win, but being less known has its advantages.  That didn't mean the commentators weren't right when they said Andy was one to watch, nor will it mean they're wrong about JJ.

I expect up until this week, people thought of him as someone with a big serve.  Now they are seeing he can do much more, so will prepare to expect drop shots etc.
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #552 on: November 03, 2012, 12:36 PM »
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I've read that too - though it would be a hugely risky thing for him to do as the number of retirements would definitely make him a target for investigation. I think it's probably more likely that he's just a very bad loser - he even withdrew in the Eastbourne final against Seppi just before Seppi was about to serve for his first ever title.
I agree that is more likely, and while not legally questionable, it's incredibly mean spirited to deny your opponent the satisfaction of a clean win. 
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Katie
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Andy Murray - US Open and Wimbledon champion! :)

Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #553 on: November 03, 2012, 12:47 PM »
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I agree that is more likely, and while not legally questionable, it's incredibly mean spirited to deny your opponent the satisfaction of a clean win. 
Definitely - it's not fair behaviour at all. I'm pleased that Andy is always very fair - hardly any retirements in his career and only takes a MTO when he really needs one.
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Re: Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November) « Reply #554 on: November 03, 2012, 12:59 PM »
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He could easily have opted for one in the final set in Shanghai, if he were that way inclined.

He's not good at hiding it if something hurts, but he won't actually take a break/MTO unless he really needs it.
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