Andy Murray vs Ivo Karlovic, Monday, Estimated time - 3:15pm BST - Discuss the match
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Andy Murray - Paris Masters 2012 (29th October - 5th November)

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Re JJ now that his game has been seen by the other players,the top players will work out how to beat him. Andy had got his measure and if he hadn't lost focus would have won in 2 sets. I think if you can oppose yourself on him he doesn't go all out and get some lucky balls in. If Tipsy had kept up the same level of his game as in the first set it would have been a different result. I think he will be a top player in a few years but at the moment he is very raw, and a little like Gulbis who announced himself to the tour in a similar fashion he will have to keep working or he will drop down the ranking very quickly as Gulbis has. The big servers soon get put in their place once the great returners start reading them (Andy and Nole) You only have to remember Karlovic, he loses to the top players now and has done for a few years now. If the WTF wasn't following Paris so soon the results would have been very different.

You've hit the nail on the head there Michelle.
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Okay I stand corrected.

This is a very strange run. Never beaten a top 30 player before in his life, and now in his first Masters he's beaten 5 top 20 players in succession.

He's also won as many points in this lne tournament as he has in the entire last year.

Anyway, it's still very fickle to get carried away and start making silly predictions about this guy. You only have to look as far as Tomic to see that one good tournament doesn't translate to being a top player. And Tomic's Wimbledon run was far more impressive.

Let's see how well this guy does in the early stages next year. He will now probably be seeded at the AO, which is quite incredible when just two months ago he had to qualify for the USO.

Anyway I really hope Ferrer wins it, otherwise it will just be farcical.
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Apparently so.  I'm sure I read his parents had to really put themselves out to give him a break, which combined with injuries, is a good explanation for why he could be very good, despite breaking through relatively late.

Knowing how much it would mean to him and his whole family is one of the reasons I was better able to take his victory over Andy.  It felt mean spirited to put my desire for Andy to narrow the ranking gap with Roger/Nole over a massive breakthrough performance/tournament for a talented player who has put in the hard graft and tough sacrifices.

But that's sport.
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Okay I stand corrected.

This is a very strange run. Never beaten a top 30 player before in his life, and now in his first Masters he's beaten 5 top 20 players in succession.

He's also won as many points in this lne tournament as he has in the entire last year.

Anyway, it's still very fickle to get carried away and start making silly predictions about this guy. You only have to look as far as Tomic to see that one good tournament doesn't translate to being a top player. And Tomic's Wimbledon run was far more impressive.

Let's see how well this guy does in the early stages next year. He will now probably be seeded at the AO, which is quite incredible when just two months ago he had to qualify for the USO.

Anyway I really hope Ferrer wins it, otherwise it will just be farcical.

How will it be farcical? Sure Ferrer is a top player, but the underdog story is just as good in my opinion. Not a farce at all.
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How will it be farcical? Sure Ferrer is a top player, but the underdog story is just as good in my opinion. Not a farce at all.
How is not farcical? All of the top 9 players have tanked or not played. It's meant to be a Masters but reality is it's been more like a 500.
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Apparently so.  I'm sure I read his parents had to really put themselves out to give him a break, which combined with injuries, is a good explanation for why he could be very good, despite breaking through relatively late.

Knowing how much it would mean to him and his whole family is one of the reasons I was better able to take his victory over Andy.  It felt mean spirited to put my desire for Andy to narrow the ranking gap with Roger/Nole over a massive breakthrough performance/tournament for a talented player who has put in the hard graft and tough sacrifices.
Apparently he couldn't afford to go to AO earlier this year.  I don't think I've ever seen someone simply unable to do an interview because of tears before like jj on sky earlier
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I'm not saying I wanted him to win.  I'm saying I felt it hard to feel distraught for Andy (or me) that he didn't.  I was disappointed, but it helped that it really didn't matter that much to Andy, while it meant a lot to him. 

That's a bit of a one-off.  I don't feel like that every time someone else wins!  I mean, Andy won't be kicking himself over the loss once he's retired, but you can be sure that JJ will remember that victory for the rest of his life - whether this was a one week fluke, or the start of a great career.

That said, if Ferrer get to tomorrow's final, I'll definitely be thinking that he deserves that one more, and I think he'll have a good chance.  JJ has to be running on fumes now.  He admitted he hardly slept after beating Andy (a bit like Andy after the US Open win), but has been surviving on a heady mix of nothing to lose and adrenaline.   Adrenaline runs out eventually.
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^^Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. Smile

He's going to be feeling great now, but in all reality in a year's time he's going to be taking a hell of a drop down the rankings, unless he really consolidates next year as a top 15 player. And I think there's just as much chance of him falling away.
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How is not farcical? All of the top 9 players have tanked or not played. It's meant to be a Masters but reality is it's been more like a 500.

And even in the doubles all 3 of the confirmed pairs for WTF went out in their 1st or 2nd match. Three pairs had to fight for the two remaining places yesterday. Only Johnny Marray is off message and is playing a SF tonight. Hope Nielsen won't be cross with him!
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And even in the doubles all 3 of the confirmed pairs for WTF went out in their 1st or 2nd match. Three pairs had to fight for the two remaining places yesterday. Only Johnny Marray is off message and is playing a SF tonight. Hope Nielsen won't be cross with him!
Indeed.

Did you hear about the Poles? Having failed to qualify, they have refused to go along on standby now. They will lose a lot of points there as well - didn't they make the semis last year?

Ross and Colin now first alternates.
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How is not farcical? All of the top 9 players have tanked or not played. It's meant to be a Masters but reality is it's been more like a 500.
I think you are right about comparing Paris to a 500, but I'd argue that if JJ had a similar run in a 500, people would still be sitting up and taking notice.   He'd not win as many points, or get the same prize money, but people would still be talking about him and saying he's one to watch over the next few tournaments.

It's probably just as much a reflection on all of the other bright young things that have been tipped and stalled, as it is on his own performance.  It's those bright young things (and Ferrer) that should be feeling anxious he may beat them to it.
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Indeed.

Did you hear about the Poles? Having failed to qualify, they have refused to go along on standby now. They will lose a lot of points there as well - didn't they make the semis last year?

Ross and Colin now first alternates.

Great for Ross and Colin - is it bad to hope that someone will drop out?
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Indeed.

Did you hear about the Poles? Having failed to qualify, they have refused to go along on standby now. They will lose a lot of points there as well - didn't they make the semis last year?

Ross and Colin now first alternates.

No I didn't hear that! I'm not sure about last year - some of these doubles players are just names to me as I haven't watched a lot of doubles. I've been trying to follow a bit more this year so I'll be better prepared at O2 - wasn't sure who I was watching last year!

Would love for Colin & Ross to play...
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I think you are right about comparing Paris to a 500, but I'd argue that if JJ had a similar run in a 500, people would still be sitting up and taking notice.   He'd not win as many points, or get the same prize money, but people would still be talking about him and saying he's one to watch over the next few tournaments.

It's probably just as much a reflection on all of the other bright young things that have been tipped and stalled, as it is on his own performance.  It's those bright young things (and Ferrer) that should be feeling anxious he may beat them to it.
Indeed, but would they really be predicting future top 5 and top 10 next year?

Golubev won a 500 in 2010. Look at him now. Flash in the pan, as it so often is. One tournament doesn't make a top player, a year of consistency does. And several years of consistency make the very best.
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How is not farcical? All of the top 9 players have tanked or not played. It's meant to be a Masters but reality is it's been more like a 500.

The fact remains he beat not just one, but two top seeded players on the way to making the final. If he beats Ferrer tomorrow, who seems like his likely opponent, it will be another top seed and a top 10 player. I disagree with you on it being a farce.
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