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Poll
Question: Predictions!!
Murray in 2 - 11 (26.8%)
Murray in 3 - 23 (56.1%)
Djokovic in 2 - 2 (4.9%)
Djokovic in 3 - 5 (12.2%)
Total Voters: 41

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Author Topic: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic  (Read 10206 times)
tamila
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #975 on: November 09, 2012, 10:05 AM »
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Absolute Spatkle.  He was ill in Asia so I wish they would just stop and think before criticising him.  Any sportsman who is ill and probably tired after exploits of this year would be in the same situation.  They are all tired at the end of the season so this tournament will probably be won by who ever is the freshest at the moment.  Ferrer, Tipsy etc have all played extra tournies in order to get to WTF the top ones may not have played as many tournies but have gone deeper into the big ones with Andy winning two of them.  He is bound to be tired both physically and mentally so can we just leave him alone.  It is the only sport that is still going after the Olympics.  Bradley Wiggins has not competed since etc.

Noto take anything from Ferrer but he has won numerous small tournies except Paris.
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Grabcopy
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #976 on: November 09, 2012, 10:20 AM »
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I did not see that last match, but I did watch the live update.  It seems to me that in any match where Andy is trying to consolidate a break that he gives the break back pretty often.  I mean he got back on serve yesterday and then couldn't hold to get the 6.  I guess I would like to see Andy be more consistent....not picking on him, but it would certainly help my nerves.

I've noticed several times when Andy pulls a break back to make it 4-4 or 5-5, he then loses his serve immediately. It's definitely become a habit. He takes a little mental holiday.
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ProdigyEng
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #977 on: November 09, 2012, 10:22 AM »
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Prodigy, when will you have this match up? Thanks.
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Emma Jean
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #978 on: November 09, 2012, 05:30 PM »
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I've noticed several times when Andy pulls a break back to make it 4-4 or 5-5, he then loses his serve immediately. It's definitely become a habit. He takes a little mental holiday.

He takes a mental holiday break prior not after breaking back. After breaking back, it becomes essential for him to let it go slightly. Typically he gets broken first when he has no reasons to (mental holiday), and then he focuses really hard to break back and he often does, but after that, when things are even, he feels a bit relief and that's when the 2nd break typically occurs. So the idea is to make sure that he doesn't get broken in the first place, when things are pretty even. It happened at the AO against Nole when he was 2-5 down in the final set and happened again a few more times throughout the year. Andy is just not the person who can stay focused the whole time, so obviously this requires a strategy that will work the best for him. My suggestion would be to find a strategy where he can stay focused when needed and let it go when he doesn’t. He doesn’t always have to put pressure on his opponent game. I’d rather he gets the break and concentrates on his own serve far more, because all you will have to do is hold your serve. Sampras, for example, would almost never go for more than 1 break and that allowed him to stay focused on his own service game.
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Emma Jean
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #979 on: November 09, 2012, 05:30 PM »
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Thank you very much. Smile
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DaveH
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #980 on: November 09, 2012, 05:35 PM »
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Sampras, for example, would almost never go for more than 1 break

That's just not true. Just from his GS finals, he had lots of double breaks, 6-1s, and even a 6-0.
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ABF
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #981 on: November 09, 2012, 06:06 PM »
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This has been such a big year for Andy....the pressure on home grown players in any sport in the UK is unique..and not in a good way. Partly its just UK culture. Huge Highs ...near bottomless lows..happens everytime. Andy deserves huge credit for what he has achieved...he did it against high odds and constant criticism. A large majority of the criticism just being rediculous. Anyway... point being.. the relief from winning a pinnacle of tennis tourno....proving to himself, family ,friends, fans...to his critics...to his competition...that he could not only play great tennis..but he can play it under severe pressure...and come out the other side a winner...well thats got to be severly draining. He needs a proper break and the season end will hopefully give him that. Next year he will have fair bit of pressure also...because those same same critics will be quick to call him a 1 hit wonder.

Anyway... some of his own fans even...need to ease up on him this year...give him some slack. He'll achieve again....I have no doubt  ...he is a winner. The bit you cant coach.
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ProdigyEng
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #982 on: November 09, 2012, 06:08 PM »
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Thank you very much. Smile

No worries Emma, I will have his match from tonight uploaded as well Smile
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Emma Jean
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #983 on: November 09, 2012, 06:20 PM »
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That's just not true. Just from his GS finals, he had lots of double breaks, 6-1s, and even a 6-0.

Sampras loved playing the GS finals but he'd save a lot of energy in earlier rounds by not going for too much, but once he’s in the GS finals, which happens to be the last match of the tournament and the best, he'd very keen on demolishing his opponent as quickly as possible and establishing his supreme authority over them. That's a different element and he could afford to do that at that stage. He loved showing off in that way.
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DaveH
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #984 on: November 09, 2012, 06:33 PM »
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Sampras loved playing the GS finals but he'd save a lot of energy in earlier rounds by not going for too much

Wimbledon 94. Picked at random. Second round a 6-2, third round a 6-1 and a 6-2, fourth round a 6-1, Q-Final a 6-1.

This thing about Sampras only going for one break sounds good, but it's just not true.

I'm not surprised seeing as usually in sport you should push home your advantage while you have the momentum.
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Emma Jean
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #985 on: November 09, 2012, 06:42 PM »
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Wimbledon 94. Picked at random. Second round a 6-2, third round a 6-1 and a 6-2, fourth round a 6-1, Q-Final a 6-1.

This thing about Sampras only going for one break sounds good, but it's just not true.

I'm not surprised seeing as usually in sport you should push home your advantage while you have the momentum.

Yes, but you are leaving out his opponents. Those players might just be terrible in general and he probably didn't need to do much and they probably just destructed themselves. There are all sorts of elements involved but there were matches, when Sampras would be only keen on getting 1 break. Besides, he had the greatest serve of all time, why should he go for more? Wasn’t at all known for his return so you need to look deeper than that as far as those matches are concerned.

Andy can afford to do that against players who aren't that good but against players like Nole, Federer, Nadal where utmost attention is required and all the time, he has to have a strategy - simply put.
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DaveH
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #986 on: November 09, 2012, 06:56 PM »
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Yes, but you are leaving out his opponents. Those players might just be terrible in general and he probably didn't need to do much and they probably just destructed themselves.

His fourth round and QF opponents at Wimbledon were terrible? His QF opponent in 94 was Michael Chang.

Of course I can just point to matches against Agassi. I'll assume you agree he wasn't terrible?

Quote
Besides, he had the greatest serve of all time, why should he go for more?

Because only going for one break is (a)unnecessary (b)a losing strategy- Sampras did get broken.

Fortunately, AM will not be adopting a strategy of only going for one break any time soon.
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Emma Jean
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #987 on: November 09, 2012, 07:16 PM »
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His fourth round and QF opponents at Wimbledon were terrible? His QF opponent in 94 was Michael Chang.

Of course I can just point to matches against Agassi. I'll assume you agree he wasn't terrible?

Because only going for one break is (a)unnecessary (b)a losing strategy- Sampras did get broken.

Fortunately, AM will not be adopting a strategy of only going for one break any time soon.

If you knew Sampras, you'd know immediately that Sampras would always bring his very best against Agassi and it never really mattered where that match took place and how insignificant the tournament was.

As to Change, he was a very good player at early stage when he went on to win his only GS (RG) at age 17, and he was a good returner as well. Agassi is one of the greatest returners in history so obviously it was best to have a double break up against great returners, so to avoid getting broken among other things. Similarly, against big servers which btw dominated the 90s, Sampras never needed to go for more than 1 break. You can be particular about this, but I watched most of Sampras’ matches live, so I am very familiar with his mindset. 

Andy is a great returner himself so he won’t have problems breaking his opponents a number of times but he’s going get broken just as many times, as he’s not one of the best servers out there and frankly, it can be a liability and it often is, in fact. Andy is not yet as smart but he will learn from his mistakes. 
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Emma Jean
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #988 on: November 09, 2012, 07:36 PM »
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In fact, I should say this that against a player like Nole, who happens to be a superb returner, the first thing Andy needs to make sure is that, he holds his serve first at any cost, whether he has a break or not. That would be for him the most important factor when playing Nole. There’s absolutely no ifs or buts about that.

Another thing I’d like to touch on Sampras is that, he’d always be up for any top 10/20 players and both Agassi and Change used to be top 10 players at least in his era. Against the lesser ranked players, he didn’t need to go for more than 1 break, unless that particular player was a good returner. Sampras was a Master strategist. That’s why he never had a true rival against whom he’d struggle too much and also, he made sure (his book also confirms it), that no one dominated him mentally. That’s why his stats in the major finals are sitting at the top of the chart – more so than Nadal who’s also a mental giant.
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DaveH
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Re: WTF RR: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #989 on: November 09, 2012, 07:36 PM »
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So, Emma Jean, Sampras only went for one break except against terrible players, in GS finals, and against great returners.

I am amused.


against big servers which btw dominated the 90s, Sampras never needed to go for more than 1 break.

I see. So if we look at Sampras' H2H against say Ivanisevic or Todd Martin, he never won a set 6-2 except in GS finals? Or would you like to say that on those occasions that he did win a set 6-2 against them, they self-destructed even though he wasn't trying on their serve?
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