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Question: Raonic will be a difficult opponent, so predictions please
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Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic

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michelle
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #435 on: April 28, 2012, 12:19 PM »
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Oh for goodness sake.....just wait and see, I'm sure Andy will come good. One swallow doesn't herald the summer, and one loss is nothing. Once and other top players learn Milos' game as Andy was in the second set there will be a different outcome, remember the dog when he first came on scene, now players have learnt how to deal with his game he is not winning as many games, the same will happen with Milos.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #436 on: April 28, 2012, 12:35 PM »
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I agree Michelle were is all this negativity coming from. Okay Raonic beat him but not by a mile a couple of lost serves one of which he got back. We know Andy is always a slow starter and he is never going to be a great clay court player but he will do his best. When you are a Murray fan it is like a roller coaster and we all should be used to that by now.
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Katie
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Andy Murray - US Open and Wimbledon champion! :)

Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #437 on: April 28, 2012, 12:40 PM »
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I really want to see the Andy Murray of US Open 08  back  again. Obviously thats not going to happen *sigh* He was aggressive and dominated players back then. His GS had purpose and had intent.   He is far too tentative today and just pushes the ball back into court.  That's not going to win you a GS!! He has to learn  to take a few risks  he can't just have this mentality   "I will not make any mistakes" "My opponent will make mistakes so therefore I will win"  He can't do this anymore.   ugh Its just so frustrating!!

Apart from the Rafa match at the USO 08, I don't think Andy dominated players back then. He almost lost to Melzer (but managed to win a 3rd set tiebreak) and had close matches against Llodra and Del Potro too. His slam performances over the last year have been much improved - to me, it looks like he's trying to be more aggressive and his mental approach has improved too. He was only 5 points away from beating Novak at the AO, so he's getting closer.

Yesterday it didn't look to me like Andy was pushing - he just couldn't get into the rallies because of Milos's huge serve and groundstrokes. Milos deserves a lot of credit for how he played - his tennis was so accurate. The fact that Andy's forehand is naturally less powerful also means it's more difficult for him to hit through a claycourt when he does face the big hitters. He'll do better against them in quicker conditions though - Madrid will be interesting.

I don't think people should read too much into Andy's performances on clay - just like Rafa fans shouldn't read too much into his performances on fast indoor hardcourts. Most players have a surface where they're not so good (a lot of players hate grass, for example) - luckily for Andy his strongest surface is the majority surface for the year.
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scotnadian
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You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #438 on: April 28, 2012, 12:57 PM »
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I think we all agree that clay is not Andy's best surface, so I'm not holding my breath for RG.  If he can hang onto his points from last year I'll be pleased enough with that... but I think it's going to be difficult for him.
He's going to try his best, and that's all he can do.  
I think we should take into perspective that Milos trains a lot at Real Club de Tenis, so he was pretty much on 'home turf' and would probably have caused an upset.  Too bad it was Andy, but there it is. Another day.. another surface..
Let's see how he does against Wee Daveed, and then we'll get a better handle on his clay court skills.
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OldScotSupport
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #439 on: April 28, 2012, 01:39 PM »
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I am about to make certain comments, with which 90% of MW members wiil disagree.

In a previous subject, I think it was after his defeat by Berdych, I posed the question as to how long the relationship between Andy and Ivan Lendl would last. I suggested not too long.

After both versus Berdych, but more remarkably during his defeat by Raonic, I was watching Lendl's attitude and his body-language on the occasions when the cameras turned towards Andy's support team. I noticed two matters:-

1. When Andy won one of his remarkable winners, his team apart from Ivan applauded enthusiastically. Lendl never moved.
2. Lendl was always seated in a way that his frame was turned away from the rest of Andy's team.

One of the reasons that Andy dispensed with Miles MacLagan's services was Miles' lack of enthusiasm on courtside towards Andy's winners. Further, when Andy in his mind decided to dispense with Miles, his tennis for a while suffered until the die was cast.

I have a feeling that Andy is having the same mental situation in his disappointment with Lendl's assistance. Perhaps that is a reason for Andy's poor results against both Berdych and Raonic. Having said that there is no doubt that Raonic was the better player and deserved to win.

It is well known that Andy is very loyal to all his team and respects and keeps in touch on amicable bases with his past coaches. In Lendl's case it is a futher difficulty as Ivan is one of the all-time greats.

We must wait and see if my feelings are correct or wide of the mark.

Andy is an enormous talent who deserves to be a Slam winner to himself be talked about with the historical greats.
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #440 on: April 28, 2012, 01:58 PM »
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I really want to see the Andy Murray of US Open 08  back  again. Obviously thats not going to happen *sigh* He was aggressive and dominated players back then. His GS had purpose and had intent.   He is far too tentative today and just pushes the ball back into court.  That's not going to win you a GS!! He has to learn  to take a few risks  he can't just have this mentality   "I will not make any mistakes" "My opponent will make mistakes so therefore I will win"  He can't do this anymore.   ugh Its just so frustrating!!  Another thing  I haven't seen Andy play his best tennis in a long long time.  I'm getting tired of waiting.
Vs Djokovic in Dubai?

Vs Djokovic in Melbourne (for 3 of the 5 sets anyway)?

Agree though, he's been far from his best form of late but then again it is the clay season. His results on the Hard were good.. maybe even the best in his career? Would be interested in seeing a stat table on how many points he's won this year compared to previous years before the Clay season. 2009 may have been better but he got knocked out in the 4th round of the AO that year.

Anyway I still have high hopes from Queens onwards.

OSS personally I think you're just reading too much into it.
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scotnadian
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You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #441 on: April 28, 2012, 01:59 PM »
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^ Well..I guess that makes me part of the 90% OSS.
I doubt Andy will bin Lendl after just 5 minutes.
You can't just wave the teabag over the cup....the pot needs to brew before you get a decent cup of tea.
As for his body-language.. We already know he doesn't like cameras in his face (remember when he covered them with towels?).. so I suspect he's just putting on his poker face.
I've observed many, many instances of him smiling and having positive interaction with Andy's team.
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Katie
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Andy Murray - US Open and Wimbledon champion! :)

Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #442 on: April 28, 2012, 02:20 PM »
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OSS - I can't remember Andy firing Miles for his on-court lack of enthusiasm. I was always under the impression that Andy preferred his coaches to be that way, that they were a calming influence. Most coaches don't get too involved in matches, leaving the cheering to the player's family and friends.
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Aileen
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #443 on: April 28, 2012, 02:24 PM »
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^ Well..I guess that makes me part of the 90% OSS.
I doubt Andy will bin Lendl after just 5 minutes.
You can't just wave the teabag over the cup....the pot needs to brew before you get a decent cup of tea.

yes  Very succinctly put Linda.

Haven't looked at this thread since the end of Andy's match because I wasn't interested in reading some of the inevitable negativity.  Please give Andy a break and time for Lendl's coaching to finally "brew" before jumping in - and if you can't then perhaps this forum isn't the right place for you.

If anyone is watching the Raonic/Ferrer match just now, perhaps this will put Andy's loss into a rather better perspective, especially as Ferrer is an experienced and dogged clay-courter and Raonic is playing a little less consistently than he did against both Andy and Almagro, yet he's still pushing Ferrer to the limit.

Final result of that match was 7-6(7-2), 7-6(7-5) to Ferrer.
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michelle
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #444 on: April 28, 2012, 02:31 PM »
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Watching the Match at the moment between Ferrer and Milos bears out what I was saying that here we have a player meeting Milos for the 4th time and you can see how Ferrer is able to return Milos serve and able to put pressure on him.
Re Lendl I have never read so much twaddle, Andy is happy with having Ivan there, he has said on a number of occasions how having him there makes him feel calm. Also I've seen a lot of communication between Lendl and the team from their sitting area. Lendl will always put on a straight face when the cameras are on him. What matters is what he says before and after a match and what they are working between them. They are already talking about next year and Andy has said his team are working on another contract. He also said we wouldn't see the Lendl effect straight away would take about a year. He's not looking for a magic switch so why should we.
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Aileen
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #445 on: April 28, 2012, 03:01 PM »
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Watching the Match at the moment between Ferrer and Milos bears out what I was saying that here we have a player meeting Milos for the 4th time and you can see how Ferrer is able to return Milos serve and able to put pressure on him.
Re Lendl I have never read so much twaddle, Andy is happy with having Ivan there, he has said on a number of occasions how having him there makes him feel calm. Also I've seen a lot of communication between Lendl and the team from their sitting area. Lendl will always put on a straight face when the cameras are on him. What matters is what he says before and after a match and what they are working between them. They are already talking about next year and Andy has said his team are working on another contract. He also said we wouldn't see the Lendl effect straight away would take about a year. He's not looking for a magic switch so why should we.
Good posting!  And this was Andy's first meeting.  Had this match gone ahead on the faster clay courts in Miami I think we might have seen a different result there for Andy, which would have impacted on this game.  I'm sure that had yesterday's match gone to a 3rd set and Andy had kept his cool (which, to his credit, he was doing) he would have won because by set 2 he had the measure of Raonic.  I hope they meet up again soon.
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deb
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I'd like to be impartial, but I can't!

Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #446 on: April 28, 2012, 03:15 PM »
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Your right Aileen, Roanic isn't playing as well (which is a shame he wasnt yesterday) and Ferrer is very good on clay, interesting, and I also agree way to early to judge the Lendl murray partnaship, it will be very interesting to see what happens by the end of this year, I still very positive Andy is going to do well.
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deb
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #447 on: April 28, 2012, 03:17 PM »
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Watching the Match at the moment between Ferrer and Milos bears out what I was saying that here we have a player meeting Milos for the 4th time and you can see how Ferrer is able to return Milos serve and able to put pressure on him.
Re Lendl I have never read so much twaddle, Andy is happy with having Ivan there, he has said on a number of occasions how having him there makes him feel calm. Also I've seen a lot of communication between Lendl and the team from their sitting area. Lendl will always put on a straight face when the cameras are on him. What matters is what he says before and after a match and what they are working between them. They are already talking about next year and Andy has said his team are working on another contract. He also said we wouldn't see the Lendl effect straight away would take about a year. He's not looking for a magic switch so why should we.
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OldScotSupport
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #448 on: April 28, 2012, 03:23 PM »
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As I said 90% of MW members will disagree with me. I stand by my comments and only time will tell who has foresight.
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Iris
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Re: Barcelona QF: Murray vs Raonic « Reply #449 on: April 28, 2012, 03:31 PM »
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^Exactly but the previous posts re Andy winning at RG, maybe Andy should just go away for a holiday if he's not going to win a particular tournament................and before anyone posts saying that's daft- exactly!!!!! Rolling Eyes
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