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Andy Murray vs David Ferrer, Saturday, Time: 2pm BST - Discuss the match
MurraysWorld Discussions  >  Murray Community  >  Andy Talk  >  Is Andy realistically the number 2 player in the world at the moment? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Poll
Question: Is Andy Murray at the moment the second best tennis player?
YES - 17 (70.8%)
NO - 7 (29.2%)
Total Voters: 24

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Is Andy realistically the number 2 player in the world at the moment?

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sickboy1888
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I disagree, Nadal has a huge chance of making World Number 1 in the second period of this year. He's already picked up a **** load of points from the golden swing, picked up points from Indian Wells, lost a little in Monte Carlo but defended Barcelona, and will presumably replace the Monte Carlo points he lost with the Madrid title. Nadal is still a threat, whether we like it or not. Right now he's playing better than Andy, he's ahead of him in the race, and has more titles than Andy this season 5-2. Nadal has also reached 7 finals from 7 tournaments, one of which includes hard court, his worst surface, oh and we mustn't forget he won that beating Federer and Del Potro on the way to the title, not bad scalps on a hard court, at all. I honestly don't see how you can write Nadal off and claim he'll never be World Number 1, the guy is ALWAYS a danger and having 7 months off will work in his favour in terms of point collecting. Don't be surprised if Nadal ends the year as World Number 1 and this is a serious prediction. I see Nadal being back at number 1 before Murray ever makes number 1. No offence to Andy as much as I'd love him to be world number 1, his clay results will always hold him back from reaching his goal, espescially with consistent point collectors like Nadal and Djokovic around.

This is my point and I fear all you have said will come true this year....TOTALLY HOPE WE ARE BOTH WRONG
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ProdigyEng
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Of course I could be way off the mark, but Nadal hasn't exactly done bad since his return.
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TheMadHatter
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He beat Federer 6-3 6-4.
Yeah, I wasn't referring to Federer when I said top two.
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TheMadHatter
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I disagree, Nadal has a huge chance of making World Number 1 in the second period of this year. He's already picked up a **** load of points from the golden swing, picked up points from Indian Wells, lost a little in Monte Carlo but defended Barcelona, and will presumably replace the Monte Carlo points he lost with the Madrid title. Nadal is still a threat, whether we like it or not. Right now he's playing better than Andy, he's ahead of him in the race, and has more titles than Andy this season 5-2. Nadal has also reached 7 finals from 7 tournaments, one of which includes hard court, his worst surface, oh and we mustn't forget he won that beating Federer and Del Potro on the way to the title, not bad scalps on a hard court, at all. I honestly don't see how you can write Nadal off and claim he'll never be World Number 1, the guy is ALWAYS a danger and having 7 months off will work in his favour in terms of point collecting. Don't be surprised if Nadal ends the year as World Number 1 and this is a serious prediction. I see Nadal being back at number 1 before Murray ever makes number 1. No offence to Andy as much as I'd love him to be world number 1, his clay results will always hold him back from reaching his goal, espescially with consistent point collectors like Nadal and Djokovic around.
Of course he's playing better than Andy, it's the clay season.

Of course he has more titles than Andy, he's played several small tournaments on clay with the likes of Ferrer and Monaco for competition.

Of course he's ahead of him in the race. Because of the clay season.

Nadal ALWAYS picks up a shitload of points in the first half of the season. It's the latter half where the other three come into their own.

Djokovic was a better player than Nadal in 2011, he's a better player now. He more than proved that in Monte Carlo. Nadal couldn't live with him for a good chunk of the match. Rome and Roland Garros will be very big in showing where Nadal is right now compared to Djokovic.
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TheMadHatter
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People are just getting way ahead of themselves because, shock, horror, Nadal is having a great clay season whilst Andy is struggling. Who would have predicted that to happen?
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blueberryhill
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@Sickboy
Sampras didn't do much on clay but managed to be No 1
So not impossible for Andy to get there, but probably unlikely, I'd say.
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BigNose
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People are just getting way ahead of themselves because, shock, horror, Nadal is having a great clay season whilst Andy is struggling. Who would have predicted that to happen?

To be fair he won Indian Wells which was his 1st hard court tournament. That coupled with his clay court form and Andy's strategy of competing in the minimum number of tournaments puts him ahead of Andy at the moment IMO.
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*Sparkle*
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Loads of the pundits were saying that Indian Wells was playing more like a clay court than a hard-court.  Quite a few of them were saying the court was laid specifically with Nadal's game in mind.  Delpo didn't play as well against him as he did against Andy or Novak - he'd run of steam by then.

It was still very impressive that he won, but it wasn't like the hard courts of Cincinnati or Shanghai etc. so it isn't a sign that he's going to wipe the floor with them when those parts of the season come around.  Nadal is always expected to play well during the clay season, and his results are great, but the consensus is still that he's not playing amazingly (yet).  On one hand you could argue that it proves how great he is that he's still winning.  On the other hand, you could say that he's demonstrating just how good he is and will be once he's been back for longer.

On yet another hand, so many players are intimidated when they meet Nadal, especially on clay and especially the other Spanish players.  Ferrer probably should have won his quarter against him, but fell apart in the end.  Ferrer's form hasn't been all that either.

Over the past year I would say that right now and over the past year, Nadal is top 2 on clay with Djokovic.  On hard-courts it's Novak and Andy, while on grass it's Roger and Andy.

It's very tempting to say that Nadal missed a big chunk of the season, yet still has all of those points, so if you give him a pro-rata ranking, he's much higher.  However, the reality of the tour is that you are supposed to play for the full year, and if you skip your weakest period and try to extrapolate the bits of the season you are best on, it's misleading.  He missed the Aus Open, but he played a few smaller clay court events instead, picking up 900 points, which is more than Fed and Ferrer managed in Australia.  Of course, Ferrer went on to play the golden swing too, but the point I'm making is that in a normal year, if Nadal had played in Australia, he wouldn't have played those smaller tournaments.  Beware of double counting if you are trying to work out what he could have if he were fully fit.
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teejay1
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I got to be honest and say if it was only the Clay Courts that he was doing well in then I would have reserved judgement but remember he won a Masters title on Hard Court a week before Andy won his. So I fully expect Nadal to challenge for Hard Court Titles and even Wimbledon throughout the rest of the year

The only thing that could stop him is his knees?

Nadal has won a bunch of 250's on clay (what a shock!) since he came back. He's also won Indian Wells, where the conditions are right for his game. Staying with the tournament owner couldn't have hurt as well.

Andy always struggles on the clay. He wasn't at all bad in Miami, and guess what, he won anyway. He got to the quarters in Indian Wells, where he's had problems for the last two years. He's been to a major final this year already and he's even had a quarter final on the dreaded red stuff.

People need to get over this thing about Andy's form. He's lost four matches all year, one a major final and the other three in conditions more suited to the opponent. You don't get ranking points based on how you play, it's results that count.

Before we start bigging Nadal up let's remember that the rankings are based on a year, not just the clay season. Andy has been to three major finals over the last 12 months and won one of them. He won the Olympics and has won a Masters. Let's see how Nadal does at RG. If Djokovic is fit I'd still make him favourite above Nadal. Then let's look at the grass. I think Andy is capable of beating anyone on grass now, including Nadal. Then there is the US Open series, where Nadal tends to struggle more. One US win compared to all those RG's says it all. Andy has chance to pick up some decent points on the Asia swing too.

In short, if all goes as I think it will Andy will finish the year at two, he might well be giving Djokovic a nudge at no.1. I can see Nadal getting back to three, but I think he could find best of five in the USO tough. He does have poorly knees y'know, she says, rolling her eyes and dragging out the sick bucket. As for Federer, he might want to buy a rosary.

There's no question about it. Andy's results rightfully have him as the second best player in the world.
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matchpoint
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^^ Yes it's debateable just how 'poorly' his knees are. Sliding onto them when he's won a victory suggests there is not much wrong with them. You can't help but be sceptical.
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Rachie
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No 2 is determined by who can pick up the most points from here so lets see... Rafa has 0 to defend after Wimbledon, and about 3000 to defend before.

Andy has 450 before Wimbledon, and has roughly 5000 to defend after that.  
So what Andy does now in Rome and RG will do alot to determine his year end ranking.

In the 2nd half of season he almost maxxed out last year! He will lose 750 for Olympics, but could make some gains w/ Queens, Montreal,Cinci, Paris, WTF . Rafa can pretty much only gain.

I actually think its too early to determine at this point as RG is still in the balance if Rafa dosent win RG i can see him really effected, by it.  Rafa's performances are often correlated to his confidence level

If he does win RG and beats Novak in the process i think he'll go on a tear and win alot. And both Andy's and Novak's ranking will be in serious jeopardy.

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Sabine
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Yes. He definitely is.

Right now, according to me, only Rafa is better than him. Federer is far behind and Nole is getting a little inconsistent too. It is just because of the clay court season, we are doubting Andy's play. I would also say that Andy deserves to be no.2 this year. He has had decent results in almost every tournament till now and hopefully will hold on to the no.2 spot for the rest of the year.
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The Gnome
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Rafa, nothing to do with him personally, it's to do with the fervour surrounding him, the commentators creaming their kecks every time he plays, the re-emergence of the rafa tards which in my opinion are worse than the fedtards, journalists starting to big up his chances of being number 1 again just because he is being successful in the clay season *feign surprise* the other 2 players (you know the 2 that have played the last 2 grand slam finals) have been demoted to mere humans who crash out of tournaments early, while King Rafa is making all the finals in the world.

I can't wait for the clay season to end, let's have some normality back, If Nadal starts winning everything this year on on other surfaces then fair play to him, until that happens  yawn
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ProdigyEng
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Look at the bright side guys, Rafa is never the favourite, no?
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Ruthie
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can we define our terms please [asks the pedantic academic].  When you say 'at the moment' do you mean literally is he playing 2nd best at present on the clay?  Patently he isn't and given his record on clay it would be v surprising if he was.  But if you mean at the moment in the broader sense of the year up until now then arguably he is 2nd best.   But I certainly don't discount Rafa challenging him for the #2 slot and I agree with whoever it was who said we might see a triumvirate at the top of the game for a while with a range of challengers trying to topple one of them.
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