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Poll
Question: Who will win?
Murray in 2. - 14 (33.3%)
Murray in 3. - 21 (50%)
Del Potro in 2. - 1 (2.4%)
Del Potro in 3. - 2 (4.8%)
Match postponed after Federer runs on and complains about raindrops. - 4 (9.5%)
Total Voters: 42

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Author Topic: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro  (Read 10255 times)
Masaka
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1230 on: March 16, 2013, 01:43 PM »
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Great posts Masaka, Murraymagic and TJ.  It is so good to see people with some perspective.  I had a feeling thoughout this tournie that Lendl and Andy had been working on something.  In fact, when they insisted on training in Miami instead of competing I did suspect that was going on.  Andy has 8 masters titles and 25 altogether.  Delpo is one year younger and has no masters and mush fewer titles.  So lets look at this sensibly.

Agree totally. His whole tennis this week has seemed forced and not his usual flowing style. He has still had his moments of complete brilliance - his tennis is too good for that not to happen. He has reminded me of how awkward it has been for me in the past when I have had to learn to walk again, after surgery. It takes a while for the new movements needed to become integrated. That probably sounds very silly, and it might well be. There has been a reason for this non playing period. I thought it was about pacing himself throughout the season more, but could well be to do with their plans for the Clay court season.

One other thing. As far as I am concerned if he never wins another GS so be it. What was important was he got one. Not for us, but for him. If that's the way it pans out, I am sure that one moment when Djokovic's return went long in Flushing Meadows last year would have been worth every agonising moment of the physical training he puts himself through.
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The Gnome
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1231 on: March 16, 2013, 02:13 PM »
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Without wishing to get into slanging matches, comments like this take my breathe away. They make the poster sound a bit of a numpty in my opinion. Non of us armchair supporters have a clue what Murray and Lendl's game plan is. It's very easy to be an expert when all you have to wield is a keyboard and a few words.  Tsonga has a new coach, yet his match against ND was one if his most brutal crucifixions. Wonder what his supporters  are saying about how well that partnership is going.   I know nothing about this game, I couldn't even physically manage to hit a ball. What I do know is that since Lendl came on board Murray has reached the finals of the last 3 Grand Slams, and two Olympic Finals. He has come away with Gold and Silver medals, and his first GS trophy. That's playing in one of the top eras of tennis. No mean feat in my view. When will folks accept that Murray isn't Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. 

It must be so sad for some of you supporting a player that you really think is such crap, and who has so many failings both tennis and personality wise, and who you perceive deliberately let's you down all the time. Why on earth do you do it? If you are such an expert, why are you not out there playing and winning these tournaments yourself, or coaching somebody else to reach these amazing heights. From your comments it is quite easy and the only reason Murray isn't rising to your expectations is he is basically a fairly duff tennis player and human being.

I really don't understand why you bother with "supporting" this travesty of a player. If you want better than Murray then your choices at the moment seem to be Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. All such wonderful players and  nice, completely rounded people.  Not one of them has a trace of arrogance, obsessive compulsive disorder or suspicions of being involved in doping.

No Lendl does not need to talk to Murray and tell him a few honest truths. They just need to get on with what they are doing. We need to have faith they, as the experts know a damn site more than any of us.

Personally that Gold Medal slaughtering of Federer was one of the great sporting highlights for me, and I am grateful for  team Murray for giving that to me. The Grand Slam was great to me because it was so important to Andy Murray and he worked so hard to get it.

If the new strategy doesn't work out at least he has given it ago. The way he has played in this tournament i.e. so awkwardly, smacks to me of a period of transition, but I don't know and certainly wouldn't presume to judge.

Please folks stop talking out of your nether regions with regard to Murray. Either accept him for what and who he is, or find a another player to support.

Stop being so foul. I can't see any justification for it at all. You made a comment about Sherlock, one of this fictional characters maxims was "it is a capital mistake to theorise before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgement". That's what I think a lot of the armchair tacticians in here are doing.




Get off your high horse seriously, you honestly think Andy hired Lendl just for him to give him a cuddle when he has a poor match? he would have hired Teejay if that was what he wanted. Andy himself has stated himself he does not want to be surrounded by "yes" men.

People can put all the positive spin on this all they want, the facts are we are supporting Andy Murray not Tim Henman, this isn't some over achieving Brit we are supporting this is a guy who can beat everybody on his day, so why is it then that he comes to an event with a mindset that he does not like the conditions here before he even hit a tennis ball and played poorly all week as a result?

Andy was the one who has stated publicly he wants to be more consistent, Andy was the one who has stated publicly that he wants to push to number 1 in the world, this is not us wanting too much for him, if Andy was quite happy to win one slam and be happy with his lot then maybe we wouldn't get so frustrated with him when he self destructs like he did last night.

And for your information, your comment that we should accept that he is not Novak, Rafa or Federer is so laughable i don't even know how to respond, he is as good as those 3 he has all the shots they do and he has as much talent as they do, this is why some of us are so frustrated that he cannot prove it more often.

Do you not think Andy is frustrated as hell when things like this happen? he spent far too much time on court last night that if he had won he would have been compromised in the semi final, we all want him to start asserting his authority on players outside the top 4 just as much as he does.

After that first set he should have crushed Delpotro into the surrounding desert.
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ProdigyEng
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1232 on: March 16, 2013, 02:17 PM »
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At the end of the day, Andy did better in Indian Wells than he has for the past 2 years. Honestly, I didn't have high hopes for this tournament, although stupidly I kept telling myself he could win, which made me a little mad haha, but it wasn't Andy's fault at all. I was disappointed that Andy didn't get World Number 2, but looking at it now, he might not of beat Djokovic, and even if he made the final, or won, I think he could have dropped straight back to number 3 in Miami if he didn't make the final there. I'm sure Andy and Lendl have a plan, and we will see the plan in full force in Miami, which is where they have been training! I also have a sneaky suspicion that Andy has been training on Clay as well, I mean wasn't he picture with Moya recently? We shouldn't worry yet, at all, I read many posts on here where people mention that  in the past users were saying Andy was going to drop to World Number 5 in 2012, and look what happened. Onwards and upwards Andy, you WILL do us all proud Smile.
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Emma Jean
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1233 on: March 16, 2013, 02:33 PM »
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Del Potro just had better strategy going into the match than Andy. Andy's new found aggressiveness wasn't good enough for this surface. The surface plays very slow to the point that even a giant and average/slow mover like Del Potro was not only able to hit the ball back but also, he was able to position himself quite well for the shot. And that left Andy with really narrow margin for error. Andy simply wanted to hit through Del Potro and didn't want to prolong the match by getting into long rallies. What he essentially had in mind was that he needed to get off the court as soon as possible as he knew he would have to save all his energy for Nole. It was a strategy Andy employed win or loss. I am sure Lendl was the main man behind this idea. He's trying to make Andy a more of an aggressive player to the point that it will come very naturally to him once he gets used to it. This is a big change for Andy who has played a very mixed game all this time. This big change will cause some losses no doubt but in the long run, it will pay off and that's the big idea. You can't be consistent until you get used to the idea of a new player with a new game plan and strategy. If Andy wants to get to No. 1 and wants to many Slams, he will have to adopt a strategy that works for most surfaces including clay. As Sampras said once, that once he changed his two handed backhand to one handed backhand, he was fully prepared for a series of losses as he wasn't used to the idea, but he knew there was no other way either and he did see a series of losses. So both Andy and Lendl know that it will take some time to get into this new model but it will eventually get there and when it does, it will be a whole new story. Some people just can't see beyond the everyday sight and that's fine. 
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Sabine
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1234 on: March 16, 2013, 02:41 PM »
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At the end of the day, Andy did better in Indian Wells than he has for the past 2 years. Honestly, I didn't have high hopes for this tournament, although stupidly I kept telling myself he could win, which made me a little mad haha, but it wasn't Andy's fault at all. I was disappointed that Andy didn't get World Number 2, but looking at it now, he might not of beat Djokovic, and even if he made the final, or won, I think he could have dropped straight back to number 3 in Miami if he didn't make the final there. I'm sure Andy and Lendl have a plan, and we will see the plan in full force in Miami, which is where they have been training! I also have a sneaky suspicion that Andy has been training on Clay as well, I mean wasn't he picture with Moya recently? We shouldn't worry yet, at all, I read many posts on here where people mention that  in the past users were saying Andy was going to drop to World Number 5 in 2012, and look what happened. Onwards and upwards Andy, you WILL do us all proud Smile.

Good posting, Prod. clap
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madabouttheboy
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1235 on: March 16, 2013, 03:00 PM »
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I never read the posts whilst the match is on if Andy isn't playing well as I can't bear to read some of the rubbish some people post but Gangsta you have really plumbed the depths this time. Why are you on this forum?
And yes calling him a Scottish ******* is racist. It's all very well making excuses that it was said out of frustration or whatever but how can you justify saying it under any circumstances?
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Moozza
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1236 on: March 16, 2013, 03:08 PM »
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Lol at the knee-jerk reactions. This is a horrible court for Andy, if he plays this badly next week then there might be a little cause for concern but I think he'll will Miami.

I just don't get what all the panic is about. He lost to a very good player, in a tournament he always struggles in, no big deal.

Also lolling in particular at the guy who said he 'will never get to no2'. He has already been number two once and he will be there again very soon.
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craighateslife
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1237 on: March 16, 2013, 03:09 PM »
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I hope in Miami he cuts down on the errors which were ridiculous in this tournament.

I also wonder why he played so aggressive this tournament after such a long lay off. Every player needs rhythm to hit offensively and on that court it seemed obvious he was struggling for any rhythm . Still he bashed the ball racking up the errors instead of playing with any variety to upset Delpo.
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Katie
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Andy Murray - US Open and Wimbledon champion! :)

Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1238 on: March 16, 2013, 03:21 PM »
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I hope in Miami he cuts down on the errors which were ridiculous in this tournament.

I also wonder why he played so aggressive this tournament after such a long lay off. Every player needs rhythm to hit offensively and on that court it seemed obvious he was struggling for any rhythm . Still he bashed the ball racking up the errors instead of playing with any variety to upset Delpo.

I was wondering this too. It was puzzling why he was ballbashing so much against someone who's probably the best ballbasher in the game at the moment. Delpo loves that type of opponent as he's so consistent himself - all he had to do was wait for errors yesterday. It was quite strange seeing Delpo being the one who was the first to use slice and he being the one who was disrupting Andy's rhythm - role reversal to their usual matches. I did like how Andy was going to the net more than in his recent matches though, as that's a tactic he needs to use more in his matches against the top 4.

But like many on here I'm not reading much into the loss yesterday. It was a bad day for Andy but at a tournament where he's generally struggled. Every player has somewhere where they don't play their best tennis. Going out at this stage may be a blessing in a way, as he'll have more time to get used to the conditions in Miami.
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bubbles80
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1239 on: March 16, 2013, 03:40 PM »
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For goodness sake one single match and suddenly Andy is going down the ranking hardly
come on please one bad day at the office against a good player  yes he made some big errors
but you need to take some big risks sometimes you win sometimes you dont
 he will learn from that and will improve
i find it a pleasure watching andy right now because he learns and always comes out fresh head and remembers where he made mistakes and learns from them

he will be very disappointed with himself but will channel his frustration into making him a better player 
all big names have bad day at the office it happens they are human beings
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sidtypical
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1240 on: March 16, 2013, 03:42 PM »
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**OLD FART ALERT**

An interesting thread this - positive v negative type thing.  As one of the oldest guys on MW - now in my 2nd half century and counting ! - I have, maybe a different perspective on sporting fortunes.  I used to be a 'passionate' footie fan, and my entire week was determined by how my team had got on. If they lost, I couldn't be bothered with anything, but if they won I was on a total high ! I began to realise how stupid this is. It occurred to me that win or lose, it made no real difference to my life either way. So, nowadays, whether it's football or Andy and tennis, I keep my emotional investment in a relatively small mental box, I enjoy the victories, regret the losses and move on.

The negative guys here have made a big emotional investment in Andy's game and, when things go wrong, they have to release that negative energy. This is the place to do that - a fan's forum - a place to sound off about stuff. The ones with a more positive outlook are just different, preferring to see the positives moving on to the next match.  The truth is probably somewhere in between, but the debate is therapeutic, and helps to restore perspective - keeping the sport confined to that little box.

For me. Andy's career is what it is. The success he has enjoyed is plenty for me already, and, although it would be great if he was to win a dozen GS's, whether he does or not won't pay my mortgage, keep my family healthy or stop it from bloody snowing !

Sport is entertainment - nothing more. It is more fun if you can find a reason to be partisan about a player/team but there is a time to switch off.  I do, however, hope that Andy Murray continues to press at the top end of the game and relish the prospect of many big matches to come.

 old
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Connor
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1241 on: March 16, 2013, 03:45 PM »
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If we were all positive, we may as well have rainbows and ponies in our mind because the harsh reality is, we are going to get negative once in a while about Andy's performances.
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bubbles80
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1242 on: March 16, 2013, 03:46 PM »
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**OLD FART ALERT**

An interesting thread this - positive v negative type thing.  As one of the oldest guys on MW - now in my 2nd half century and counting ! - I have, maybe a different perspective on sporting fortunes.  I used to be a 'passionate' footie fan, and my entire week was determined by how my team had got on. If they lost, I couldn't be bothered with anything, but if they won I was on a total high ! I began to realise how stupid this is. It occurred to me that win or lose, it made no real difference to my life either way. So, nowadays, whether it's football or Andy and tennis, I keep my emotional investment in a relatively small mental box, I enjoy the victories, regret the losses and move on.

The negative guys here have made a big emotional investment in Andy's game and, when things go wrong, they have to release that negative energy. This is the place to do that - a fan's forum - a place to sound off about stuff. The ones with a more positive outlook are just different, preferring to see the positives moving on to the next match.  The truth is probably somewhere in between, but the debate is therapeutic, and helps to restore perspective - keeping the sport confined to that little box.

For me. Andy's career is what it is. The success he has enjoyed is plenty for me already, and, although it would be great if he was to win a dozen GS's, whether he does or not won't pay my mortgage, keep my family healthy or stop it from bloody snowing !

Sport is entertainment - nothing more. It is more fun if you can find a reason to be partisan about a player/team but there is a time to switch off.  I do, however, hope that Andy Murray continues to press at the top end of the game and relish the prospect of many big matches to come.

 old

well said "sidtypical"
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scotnadian
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1243 on: March 16, 2013, 03:47 PM »
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I've watched the whole thing twice. The second time from an objective pov, because I'm always much too emotionally involved when watching live.

Right from the get-go he seemed rattled and rushed, and obviously his FH and serve weren't clicking for him.

He said in his post-match interview that he's going to work on his serve for Miami, and also that it was a tough match with long rallies in hot conditions, and if your legs are tired that can affect the timing of the serve.

He is a legend at University of Miami where the students are in awe of his training regime.. so I have no idea how much fitter he needs to get.

It's encouraging that he's done better than last year, and the year before... but he's also been a Finalist too, beating Fed in SF then losing to Rafa in 2009. The conditions didn't seem to be a problem then.

Onwards and upwards, Andy.
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ABF
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Re: IW QF: Murray vs Del Potro « Reply #1244 on: March 16, 2013, 03:52 PM »
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I think Andy had a reasonable tournament...his play flirted between great and poor. He entered the tourno without competitive match play...and the wins that provide confidence in your game. He obviously struggles with the court conditions of this tournament ..his results reflect that over the years. Miami ...I expect improved performances from Andy. Its a court better suited to his game play. That said, if he doesn't achieve the final there I think its fair to say his form isn't where it needs to be to seriously challenge a Djoko or Nadal...particularly as he is about to enter his least favored surface, in clay.

His play, I felt,  was one dimensional against Del Potro, which, if that is how Lendl is telling him to play isn't gonna win him much. Andys' strength is in speed and variety and with occasional aggression against the top guys he will win more majors I believe.  I thought that was the best performance from Del Potro since he won the USOpen in '09.... and the folks that slated Andy's performance should remember Del Potro also achieved a grand slam...the US Open...just like Andy. Is the loss that surprising? ...when also considering this is a Masters event and not slam. I think Djoko will go on and win the event now. He is the player everyone has to beat to win.

On a side note....the amount of posts that adopt a condescending mindset to belittle other posters is just as predictable as any negative posts. Striking a balance would be great. At the end of the day its just a tennis forum .... none of us are mates ..its just opinions..of which some overstep the line of decency. The joys of a net forum Wink
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