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Lessons to learn!

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David
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Lessons to learn! « on: September 24, 2005, 08:22 AM »
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In Andy's defeat to Wawrinka, we have to criticise his work ethic. He was beaten by a man, who wanted to win the match more than him. To me he seemed lackadaisical and lacked motivation. Sure Wawrinka played well, but you have to lift yourself up, to play better than your opponent.

Firstly he needs a sports psychologist to sort out out his inner gremlims. He needs to get rid of Mark Petchy. What has he ever done in the world of tennis? McEnroe has offered his services. Get on your knees and grab the opportunity, or get someone who has a track record. Get rid of that stupid ritual with the music. Concentration is needed starting from inside the locker room. He strolled on to court as if it was a Sunday afternoon knockabout. Watch the top players like Andre Agassi and Federer. They don't waste their time on rituals and cursing and wasting energy. Andy has the natural ability, but to reach the very top, more is needed.
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Mark
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #1 on: September 24, 2005, 10:03 AM »
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David, I think you may be going a little too far. This is one defeat, and yes it is his first defeat where he seemed to lack passion but that doesn't mean he suddenly should change everything when he has been playing and improving really well recently. Change the music ritual? It could be helping him get hyped. Getting McEnroe for a coach does sound like a good idea if he could do it. But I think you should give him another chance before judging him and his environment after one disappointing match.
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kundalini
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #2 on: September 24, 2005, 05:10 PM »
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At the start of this year Andy's previous coach set a target of top 50 by the end of the year, and top 100 by the time of Roland Garros.

Poor form and injury problems meant that Andy made no progress in the first 5 months of the year. His ranking going into Queens was only just inside 400.

Andy is likely to finish the year around 70 - 80 in the world. Not that far short of the original, and perhaps wildly unrealistic, target.

So by that scorecard he is doing ok.

Sure, there are some fairly clear weaknesses that are costing him matches - the much commented upon fitness issue and his first serve percentage. If those two can be resolved I would imagine that Andy will be inside the top 30 by the end of next year.

As for coaches and coaching: the top coaches in the game are thought to be Brad Gilbert, Annacone, Stefanki, Cahill and a few others I'm struggling to remember. The common factor is that they were modest players who suceeded through out-thinking their opponents. I have never met Mark Petchey but from listening to his analysis on Sky he sounds like he knows the game. John McEnroe never offered to be Andy's full time coach, rather he offered a few coaching sessions and Andy has indeed made use of this offer at the US Open.

I think David is right in the sense that tennis is a very tough sport when you get to the highest levels. Andy would appear to have the talent, but it takes a lot more than that to succeed.

Next year will be interesting.
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Jills
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #3 on: September 24, 2005, 07:00 PM »
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i'm with you on this one Mark, people are so quick to criticise, drives me mad.
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David
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Good evening « Reply #4 on: September 24, 2005, 07:28 PM »
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I have to see Andy as the best player to emerge since Fred Perry. To do this, I would need to see him better than how he is now. There are fundamental problems....

His fitness. It is well known that he doesn't like training and I'm convinced he is a player than prefers to be on court, than getting fit for competition (don't we all)...but it is a problem, because he DOESN'T LIKE IT. Unless he can change his attitude and LOVE training, he will just be an also ran. The top players will eat him up. The standard at the top is extremely high and you need to be just that little bit better.It is difficult to change a lifetime habit though. That is the problem he will have to overcome. I hope he can see the benefits that will reward him.

Andy once said that he prefered tennis to football, because it is an individual sport and if he makes a mistake he has only himself to blame. He is an individual, that we have heard and his own boss. Any player will tell you that tennis at the top is now a team sport. You will need to take advice that maybe you don't like, from psychologists, trainers, coaches AND learn. If you don't have the interest you will not improve.

They say Mark Petchey is a good coach. I think he could aim higher and will need to. He has never been a top player and hasn't the insight that a top coach would have at the TOP level and a 'friend' is not always the best mentor. Andy needs someone who he has respect for and will follow directions, even though he dislikes what the coach says.  The best is needed for Andy to succeed.

He could have won that singles match. As far as I'm concerned, he had the game to beat his man, but wasn't motivated enough. The way he capitulated in the tie-break didn't look good. His answer is to throw his towel or racquet down or swear. This has been consistant in lot of his games. A good coach would hopefully rid him of this and motivation starts on the practice court through to the dressing room, until the minute he walks on the court, not listening to a walkman. He didn't look motivated at all to me.

He has reached a reasonable level, by virtue of his natural talent, but this is where the boy has to turn into a man and there many players out there with the same talent. The ball's in his court and let's wish him well. It will be interesting to see if the coccoon develops into a Fred Perry butterfly.
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David
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Hi « Reply #5 on: September 24, 2005, 07:37 PM »
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i'm with you on this one Mark, people are so quick to criticise, drives me mad.


I've been following him for a long time now. If you had bothered to notice, it is positive points I am making. I giving reasons for change, which he needs. We want him to improve. I could spend all day saying what a great player he is, but it would turn this into a boring message board! Would you prefer me to say how wonderful he played all the time, rather than telling the truth?

Unless you discuss the positives AND the negatives, there will not be change.
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eira_arian
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #6 on: September 24, 2005, 07:40 PM »
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interesting points everybodys making and i've got to say that i agree with the vast majority, but perhaps we should take into account the fact that the pressure in davis cup is different and he said himself after the match that he hadn't expected the kind of pressure he put on himself...
but yes, he didn't seem hugely motivated and perhaps he should have dealt with the pressure better...it is only one match however.....

seeing as the title of the thread is 'lessons to learn' though, i do see the value of taking both positives and negatives out of the match - like you say David, thats the only way change can happen and after all, as tennis and murray fans, thats what we want to see Very Happy
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Jills
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #7 on: September 24, 2005, 08:15 PM »
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Sorry David I didnt mean that how it sounded. I kinda meant that people on the outside will look at the result and just say 'oh hes rubbish after all' when they would have  been saying how great he was just weeks ago. We're all on the same side here, and we know its gonna take time for Andy to settle down and find out whats best for him  Very Happy [/quote]
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David
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Hi Jills « Reply #8 on: September 24, 2005, 08:24 PM »
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At least we know he's not rubbish!... Very Happy
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Jills
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #9 on: September 24, 2005, 09:14 PM »
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Yup!!  8)
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kundalini
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #10 on: September 24, 2005, 09:28 PM »
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Regarding Andy's apparent lack of motivation, I suspect he has been trying to keep his emotions undercontrol.

I read somewhere that team Murray felt his displays of emotion had been over the top at Wimbledon. Over the course of a long match a lot of energy can be wasted so a change was needed. Perhaps the new approach makes it look as though he lacks motivation.

I must admit I didn't see anything that suggested to me that he lacked motivation. But the Murray/Dent match at Cincinnati was incredibly low key and barely recognisable from the Andy we saw during the grass court season.

Also worth remembering that Andy imploded at the juniors at Roland Garros earlier this year and in the Dupuis match at Rhode Island. In both cases his temper cost him any chance of winning the match. So it is possible for him to get too motivated.
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eira_arian
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #11 on: September 24, 2005, 09:38 PM »
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fair point kundalini - as always you make perfect sense.
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David
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #12 on: September 24, 2005, 09:59 PM »
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Quote
Regarding Andy's apparent lack of motivation, I suspect he has been trying to keep his emotions undercontrol.


It's a happy medium, which the players at the top seem to achieve....control yet required application. It's will be part of the learning process for Andy, but the motivation to change must be there!
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Elly
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #13 on: September 24, 2005, 10:27 PM »
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I have to agree with much of what David said about Murray.  I think he has the potential to be his own worst enemy, or (please God) the potential to be one of the greatest players British tennis has ever seen.  Taking advice he doesn't like may be something that Murray finds particularly difficult to do, and I believe that overcoming that may play a huge part in how his future career progresses.  Having self belief is absolutely crucial, but there's a fine line between that and not having the humility to listen to those who really do know better.  I believe Murray posseses a charasmatic character that carries with it a huge will, and he will need someone with an equally huge character to lead him to even greater success.

Having said all that the boy (and he is only a boy) is 18 years old and has achieved so much already, and for that he has to be applauded.  Like David said, the ball really is in Murray's court now, and I hope he continues to mature and improve so that us Murray fans can have lots to cheer about in the future.
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top_spin
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Lessons to learn! « Reply #14 on: September 25, 2005, 09:14 PM »
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Quote from: "ellyb"

Having said all that the boy (and he is only a boy) is 18 years old and has achieved so much already, and for that he has to be applauded.  Like David said, the ball really is in Murray's court now, and I hope he continues to mature and improve so that us Murray fans can have lots to cheer about in the future.


Andy definitly must be applauded for what he's done...and ok the GB Davis Cup matches are really not going in our favour, but if you think about it the doubles was a bit one sided - not saying that it was Greg's fault that we lost, but Andy did produce some stunning base line shots aimed at Federer which not many people could even think about at his age.  Very Happy

Andy needs to mature (without growing side-burns!)  lol ....put more work into his weaknesess, and im sure this guy could be the biggest thing that happeneds to Britian in the world of tennis for a long time! ...and it's definitly time too!!!
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