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Poll
Question: Who will win?
Murray in 2 - 4 (12.1%)
Murray in 3 - 17 (51.5%)
Berdych in 2 - 9 (27.3%)
Berdych in 3 - 0 (0%)
Berdych runs away screaming because he confuses Murray with Djokovic. - 3 (9.1%)
Total Voters: 33

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Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych

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Emma Jean
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #720 on: May 11, 2013, 12:40 AM »
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3 top players didn't make the semi - Nole, Andy and Federer.
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Ghostbuster
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #721 on: May 11, 2013, 12:45 AM »
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But Djokovic won in Monte Carlo. Players do lose tournaments early from time to time, that's ok. As we hear whenever Murray loses, everyone has bad days and so on. That's fine. There's no shame in losing to Berdych today, or reaching the quarters. The problem is he's lost three times to Berdych on clay and frequently doesn't go beyond the quarters. Federer and Djokovic have much more in the bank, hence why they can get away with it. Stuff like this is just, sadly, more proof that Murray will never be a true threat on clay. Which is, once again, ok. Just disappointing.
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Masaka
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #722 on: May 11, 2013, 12:46 AM »
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I think given Murray's problems with clay it is simply the part of the season whereby he aims to get what points he can, and maintain his position. He is obliged to play these tournaments, when probably he would rather not bother with clay at all.

If match practice enables him to reach a couple of QF's that seems worth it to me. Think of all those other players who battle on tournament after tournament knowing they are likely to go out in rounds 2 or 3.

Tsonga's out as well.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #723 on: May 11, 2013, 12:48 AM »
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Andy lost to players that were worthy losing to simply put - Wawrinka and Berdcyh; no shame in that. They are slightly better than Andy on clay. Andy's just trying to improve on it. There's no player in history who's equally great on grass, clay and hard.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #724 on: May 11, 2013, 12:49 AM »
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Tsonga's out in the meantime and I really feel Wawrinka is a much better proposition for Nadal at this point. He's more consistent these days and also playing with a lot of conviction. 
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Ghostbuster
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #725 on: May 11, 2013, 12:50 AM »
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But come on. Andy is better than that, and we all know it. This isn't Davydenko on grass here. He reached three semis out of four two years ago and came close to beating Djokovic and, to a lesser extent, Nadal. He looked like he was starting to become a threat. He has a lot of the attributes needed to do well on clay. And he's surely a better all-round player now. So why the regression? It's a little strange.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #726 on: May 11, 2013, 12:53 AM »
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I don't think he's regressing. It's the timing that's not working for him right now. Next year I think he'll be in much more comfortable situation. He does have a few years on it to make vast improvement and even win RG.
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #727 on: May 11, 2013, 12:54 AM »
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Andy lost to players that were worthy losing to simply put - Wawrinka and Berdcyh; no shame in that. They are slightly better than Andy on clay. Andy's just trying to improve on it. There's no player in history who's equally great on grass, clay and hard.

How long is it going to take for this improvement?

He's been a pro for 8+ years now.
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Ghostbuster
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #728 on: May 11, 2013, 12:54 AM »
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Andy lost to players that were worthy losing to simply put - Wawrinka and Berdcyh; no shame in that. They are slightly better than Andy on clay. Andy's just trying to improve on it. There's no player in history who's equally great on grass, clay and hard.

That's fair enough but like I said, it's not one match, it's pretty much all of them. You would think in a dozen matches against clay players who are good or better, Andy would win SOMEWHERE. Wawrinka lost to Tsonga last week. Berdych has lost to Robredo and Fognini in his previous clay tournaments. Anderson ran him closer than Murray did. These aren't unbeatable clay masters. It's puzzling. There's flaws in Andy's game on this surface, no doubt. But I feel there's more to it than an occasional quarter final, semi final at best, with the likelihood of being blown away pretty high too. Especially when you consider he's a top four seed and everyone else is so inconsistent.
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teejay1
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #729 on: May 11, 2013, 12:55 AM »
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3 top players didn't make the semi - Nole, Andy and Federer.

And two of them didn't make the quarter finals. Andy did and got back to no.2 on his own merit in the process.

Not you EJ, but someone was questioning what Andy is practising for if he can only reach the quarters on clay. I think that's the wrong way to look at it. I always think the quarters is the start of the sharp end of a tournament. On hard and grass it would generally be the minimum of what I would consider Andy capable of. On clay, the surface he struggles most on, the quarters is pretty good going. However, Andy can take two approaches. He can either accept that he 'can't' play on the clay and leave it at that, or he can work to improve. The former isn't Andy's style. The latter certainly is, hence the work he is putting in.
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #730 on: May 11, 2013, 12:59 AM »
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I wasn't questioning what he's practicing for. I was questioning why the same people saying it's good match practice are also the same ones saying "pft, clay, let's just move on" or saying "hey we know he's not so good on clay so don't worry about it". By saying he's getting good match practice they're acting as if he is, in fact, preparing for a run at the title, while also basically saying he's crap.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #731 on: May 11, 2013, 01:03 AM »
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How long is it going to take for this improvement?

He's been a pro for 8+ years now.

Andy's priority was never clay. His priority was always to win a Slam first and that took a very long time. It's only now for him to turn his attention towards clay but to be honest, it's not time for that yet. He needs to win Wimbledon first so the top priorities are there. The chances are much greater there. He can then afford to turn his attention towards clay. I really think in a couple of years time, he'lls be a real threat on clay. Even this year, you can't totally right him off as far as RG is concerned. Top players can knock each other out and he can very well sneak in. Besides, I am sure he'll be saving his best for RG.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #732 on: May 11, 2013, 01:09 AM »
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That's fair enough but like I said, it's not one match, it's pretty much all of them. You would think in a dozen matches against clay players who are good or better, Andy would win SOMEWHERE. Wawrinka lost to Tsonga last week. Berdych has lost to Robredo and Fognini in his previous clay tournaments. Anderson ran him closer than Murray did. These aren't unbeatable clay masters. It's puzzling. There's flaws in Andy's game on this surface, no doubt. But I feel there's more to it than an occasional quarter final, semi final at best, with the likelihood of being blown away pretty high too. Especially when you consider he's a top four seed and everyone else is so inconsistent.

I don't think Andy has any flaws technically on this surface other than his 2nd serve being weak but that's basically everywhere. It's the mindset that holds him back. He feels one needs to grow up on clay in order to be really good on it. I wouldn't t wonder if that was his first motivation to move to Barcelona to get some practice done on clay. He lacks confidence and belief system on this surface and that's what really holding him back. That's why the win over Berdych tonight was very important for him. The fact is, he's still great on other surfaces and more consistent than the likes of Tsogna or Berdych or Wawrinka etc. They can have these sorts of wins over Andy, but at the end of the day, Andy's still the No. 2 player and is very likely to lead them on the other surfaces and it counts as a whole.  
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teejay1
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #733 on: May 11, 2013, 01:12 AM »
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I don't think he's regressing. It's the timing that's not working for him right now. Next year I think he'll be in much more comfortable situation. He does have a few years on it to make vast improvement and even win RG.

Ah but EJ, Andy has won a major, so people want everything right now or else!
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Emma Jean
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Re: Madrid QF: [3] Murray vs. [6] Berdych « Reply #734 on: May 11, 2013, 01:12 AM »
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Let's not forget that Andy's No. 2 by merit and not by chance. A loss to Berdych isn't totally unwarranted given the surface and to lesser extent, the schedule. Berdych did have the advantage on this surface along with the fact that, he had more time to rest than Andy. They both matter and should be taken into account.
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