Home Search Calendar Help Login Register
Did you miss your activation email?
MurraysWorld Discussions  >  Murray Community  >  Andy Talk  >  Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 ... 7 Go Down Reply
Author

Mainstream media questioning the 'injury'

 (Read 2568 times)
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,179

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #15 on: June 01, 2011, 08:36 PM »
Reply

I'm not saying Murray isn't carrying an injury, but what an incredibly mobile performance today again from a player who only two days ago was walking on crutches.  Physios can do a lot of good things but they can't work miracles - and I know that because I once had intensive physio myself for a relatively small tendon tear in my shoulder which kept me off work for a month.

Also Murray said he needed to have two scans.  Surely a tear of any concern would have been picked up in the first one unless the doctors were totally incompetent.

I wonder too just what pills he's been taking since that amount of painkillers and anti-inflammatories (9 in the morning and the same at night) would knock most people sideways, and Murray has been remarkably sharp, any losses of concentration being pretty much par for the course.

Unfortunately it just means that if he does really pick up a serious injury, like he did with his wrist in 2007, people will still find it hard to believe him.  The expression 'cry wolf' comes to mind.

Again, you are speaking without informing yourself.

Murray was not on crutches. He didnt use them. Also, scans can and do miss partial tears, as was pointed out yesterday. All of this was covered in the thread, but you haven't bothered to read it or the post match transcript. Go here to read what Murray said, as opposed to the press sensationalism you have been relying on.

http://tennisleask.blogspot.com/

Here's an article on how unreliable MRI scans are when it comes to partial tears.

http://www.nwoa.com/MedicalPDFs/biceps_mrijhs.pdf

It's one thing to accuse someone of faking an injury when you're informed. It's another to do it when you are oblivious to the facts. No wonder I lose patience on here.

IP Logged
BigNose
ATP Level
***
Posts: 1,824


The Voice of Reason

Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #16 on: June 01, 2011, 08:52 PM »
Reply

Paula Radcliffe yesterday ran a race with a partial tear in a disc in her back. Some injuries don't seem to be that big a deal to be honest.
IP Logged
Aileen
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 37,291

Gender: Female
Location: Edinburgh


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #17 on: June 01, 2011, 09:51 PM »
Reply

Again, you are speaking without informing yourself.

It's one thing to accuse someone of faking an injury when you're informed. It's another to do it when you are oblivious to the facts. No wonder I lose patience on here.
I am NOT accusing Murray of faking his injury.  I saw the accident with my own eyes both at the time and later on in the match highlights and am in no doubt that he did give his ankle a nasty tweak which caused him a lot of pain, and we have since seen some swelling and bruising.

I do admit I only found out the truth about the crutches when I read a newspaper this evening, but he does refer to having to drag himself painfully around.

That apart, I am not speaking without being informed and I don't need you to ram your evidence down my throat.  I have read the thread and the post-match transcript and digested that information.  What I'm saying is based both on that and on my own personal experience of a similar tendon injury.  Medication, icing and physio will help the pain and inflammation and help relieve some of the stiffness but it will not help the weakness in the affected joint,  Unfortunately the agility with which he's been moving round the court suggests that the stiffness is now minimal and that there is little or no weakness there.

However, my concern is that if there really is a problem, then taking large amounts of medication to stifle the pain is extremely unwise.  Pain is there for a reason - it tells you that something is wrong with our bodies - and physios recommend that you move the affected area within the limits of that pain.  If Murray is pushing his ankle beyond that point because he's so doped up that the pain has been completely numbed then, yes, he is running the very real risk of causing it further damage.

Paula Radcliffe yesterday ran a race with a partial tear in a disc in her back. Some injuries don't seem to be that big a deal to be honest.
Radcliffe's body has had enough but she won't listen to it and do the sensible thing and retire from running.

IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,179

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #18 on: June 01, 2011, 10:05 PM »
Reply

I am NOT accusing Murray of faking his injury.  I saw the accident with my own eyes both at the time and later on in the match highlights and am in no doubt that he did give his ankle a nasty tweak which caused him a lot of pain, and we have since seen some swelling and bruising.

I do admit I only found out the truth about the crutches when I read a newspaper this evening, but he does refer to having to drag himself painfully around.

That apart, I am not speaking without being informed and I don't need you to ram your evidence down my throat.  I have read the thread and the post-match transcript and digested that information.  What I'm saying is based both on that and on my own personal experience of a similar tendon injury.  Medication, icing and physio will help the pain and inflammation and help relieve some of the stiffness but it will not help the weakness in the affected joint,  Unfortunately the agility with which he's been moving round the court suggests that the stiffness is now minimal and that there is little or no weakness there.

However, my concern is that if there really is a problem, then taking large amounts of medication to stifle the pain is extremely unwise.  Pain is there for a reason - it tells you that something is wrong with our bodies - and physios recommend that you move the affected area within the limits of that pain.  If Murray is pushing his ankle beyond that point because he's so doped up that the pain has been completely numbed then, yes, he is running the very real risk of causing it further damage.

But you are being ignorant, Aileen. You didn't even realise that it was a partial tear. Even fuzzyballs said that something like that isn't significant. What is bothering him is the sprained ankle, which is entirely separate.

So you clearly did not read the thread or the transcript. You have stated a number of things that have already been refuted. You continued to express your ignorance even in that last post. Murray has already stated that there is NO risk to his ankle unless he goes over on it again. Seriously, read the post match transcript. You are bringing up points that he has already addressed.

And when did he say that he was dragging himself around painfully? He said he stayed off his feet the day after the Berrer match because that's what he was advised to do. I haven't seen him say anything about walking around in pain. Do you have a link?
IP Logged
BigNose
ATP Level
***
Posts: 1,824


The Voice of Reason

Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #19 on: June 01, 2011, 10:10 PM »
Reply

This is what Nadal said of Andy's injury after his match:

"The pain is on the ankle?" he inquired. "I have sometimes this in the past. In my opinion, [it] is not going to affect him or his confidence. He played a five-set match and today played a tough match and he keeps winning. Probably he has pain, but the pain is not limiting. That is what I feel. He's playing well. He's a big player."
IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,179

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #20 on: June 01, 2011, 10:12 PM »
Reply

This is what Nadal said of Andy's injury after his match:

"The pain is on the ankle?" he inquired. "I have sometimes this in the past. In my opinion, [it] is not going to affect him or his confidence. He played a five-set match and today played a tough match and he keeps winning. Probably he has pain, but the pain is not limiting. That is what I feel. He's playing well. He's a big player."

I don't think the pain is limiting either. However, I do take issue with some idiots suggesting that he simply decided to fabricate a story about having a partial tear in his achilles tendon.

People need to take a second and just think about how absurd that sounds.
IP Logged
IonaRed
Challenger Level
**
Posts: 1,181

Location: Scotland


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #21 on: June 01, 2011, 11:06 PM »
Reply

This is what Nadal said of Andy's injury after his match:

"The pain is on the ankle?" he inquired. "I have sometimes this in the past. In my opinion, [it] is not going to affect him or his confidence. He played a five-set match and today played a tough match and he keeps winning. Probably he has pain, but the pain is not limiting. That is what I feel. He's playing well. He's a big player."

When did everyone become an ankle injury expert?  I was under the impression that only Andy knows how it feels.  Obviously not.


IP Logged
BigNose
ATP Level
***
Posts: 1,824


The Voice of Reason

Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #22 on: June 02, 2011, 12:06 AM »
Reply

Look lets use our common sense here. If Andy's injury was in any way serious he would not be twisting and turning for 3-4 hours on a tennis court every couple of days! Full Stop. Debate Over.

And I'll just add this which is also bleeding obvious. Andy is a young man with a great tennis career in front of him. There is zero chance he would risk, or be allowed to risk, permanent injury by playing when he shouldn't.
IP Logged
Aileen
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 37,291

Gender: Female
Location: Edinburgh


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #23 on: June 02, 2011, 12:48 AM »
Reply

But you are being ignorant, Aileen. You didn't even realise that it was a partial tear. Even fuzzyballs said that something like that isn't significant. What is bothering him is the sprained ankle, which is entirely separate.

So you clearly did not read the thread or the transcript. You have stated a number of things that have already been refuted. You continued to express your ignorance even in that last post. Murray has already stated that there is NO risk to his ankle unless he goes over on it again. Seriously, read the post match transcript. You are bringing up points that he has already addressed.

And when did he say that he was dragging himself around painfully? He said he stayed off his feet the day after the Berrer match because that's what he was advised to do. I haven't seen him say anything about walking around in pain. Do you have a link?
Stop being so condescending James, it doesn't become somebody of your age and intelligence.

Of course I realised it was a partial tear.  Had that not been the case then Murray wouldn't even have been able to walk off court let alone continue playing after treatment.  And he's more concerned about the sprain than the tear, which, according to you is a separate thing altogether?  Now I suggest it's you who reads things properly.  From the Telegraph article -

Murray, fighting hard but still handicapped, is the outsider of the group. As he points out, the partial tear to one of the tendons of his right ankle he incurred against Berrer has left him vulnerable not only to collapse at any moment, thus robbing him of certainty in his own shots, but to the sophisticated torture that any of the others would be able to inflict over the course of a championship match.

Perhaps 'dragging' was the wrong word, but also from the Telegraph article -

"Murray revealed he considered pulling out on Saturday night. "I was thinking I had no chance because I was struggling walking upstairs"

- and that same comment appeared in other reports that I read.

This is what Nadal said of Andy's injury after his match:

"The pain is on the ankle?" he inquired. "I have sometimes this in the past. In my opinion, [it] is not going to affect him or his confidence. He played a five-set match and today played a tough match and he keeps winning. Probably he has pain, but the pain is not limiting. That is what I feel. He's playing well. He's a big player."
Seems that Nadal is of the same opinion as John Lloyd - and Nadal is a player who, given the problems with his knees, must know one heck of a lot about pain.

However, I do take issue with some idiots suggesting that he simply decided to fabricate a story about having a partial tear in his achilles tendon.
I have yet to read anywhere an accusation that Murray fabricated the story, merely that he might perhaps be guilty of exaggerating things a little.

Look lets use our common sense here. If Andy's injury was in any way serious he would not be twisting and turning for 3-4 hours on a tennis court every couple of days! Full Stop. Debate Over.
I agree - this is a pointless exercise and I for one have no intention of continuing further with this debate.

James, if you want further argument on this issue, then go find Fuzzyballs - he's obviously up for it.

 

[ Last edit by Aileen June 02, 2011, 02:17 AM ] IP Logged
spocler
Futures Level
**
Posts: 400

Gender: Female
Location: Scotland


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #24 on: June 02, 2011, 01:27 AM »
Reply

I'm not meaning to argue here - just my take on it. I don't see the struggling to be able to walk quote as an exaggeration. This was soon after he rolled it, when it will have still been acutely painful. How sore it was then was not necessarily an indication of how much it would inhibit him after a day or two of rest. He will have been advised to stay off it to minimise healing time and allow it to recover - not because it is severe - hence the crutches.
Anyway, here's hoping he can manage to ignore it on Friday - it can't help even if it's just uncomfortable - naturally he'll avoid moving that way freely.
IP Logged
Aileen
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 37,291

Gender: Female
Location: Edinburgh


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #25 on: June 02, 2011, 01:49 AM »
Reply

I'm not meaning to argue here - just my take on it. I don't see the struggling to be able to walk quote as an exaggeration. This was soon after he rolled it, when it will have still been acutely painful. How sore it was then was not necessarily an indication of how much it would inhibit him after a day or two of rest. He will have been advised to stay off it to minimise healing time and allow it to recover - not because it is severe - hence the crutches.
Anyway, here's hoping he can manage to ignore it on Friday - it can't help even if it's just uncomfortable - naturally he'll avoid moving that way freely.
I don't think anyone would disagree  with you about the acute phase of such an injury, especially if they've experienced it themselves, but if it's of any comfort, I've just watched the highlights of the match (always pick up on a bit more in these) and Murray was moving and sliding quite freely, even frequently bending his right ankle and putting his full weight on it.  Strapping, physio and medication obviously help, but mentally at least it doesn't seem to be a concern.  He'll have 48 hours in which to rest it further and get more treatment, so hopefully by Friday the ankle will have improved further and we'll see an entertaining SF against Nadal. Smile
IP Logged
spocler
Futures Level
**
Posts: 400

Gender: Female
Location: Scotland


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #26 on: June 02, 2011, 01:51 AM »
Reply

I don't think anyone would disagree  with you about the acute phase of such an injury, especially if they've experienced it themselves, but if it's of any comfort, I've just watched the highlights of the match (always pick up on a bit more in these) and Murray was moving and sliding quite freely, even frequently bending his right ankle and putting his full weight on it.  Strapping, physio and medication obviously help, but mentally at least it doesn't seem to be a concern.  He'll have 48 hours in which to rest it further and get more treatment, so hopefully by Friday the ankle will have improved further and we'll see an entertaining SF against Nadal.
Encouraging! Smile I missed most of the match - got home for the end of the third set. Hoping a better opponent will have him focussed from the start.
IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,179

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #27 on: June 02, 2011, 02:07 AM »
Reply

Stop being so condescending James, it doesn't become somebody of your age and intelligence.

You deserve to be patronised for your ignorance.

Quote
Of course I realised it was a partial tear.  Had that not been the case then Murray wouldn't even have been able to walk off court let only continue playing after treatment.  And he's more concerned about the sprain than the tear, which, according to you is a separate thing altogether?  Now I suggest it's you who reads things properly.  From the Telegraph article -

Murray, fighting hard but still handicapped, is the outsider of the group. As he points out, the partial tear to one of the tendons of his right ankle he incurred against Berrer has left him vulnerable not only to collapse at any moment, thus robbing him of certainty in his own shots, but to the sophisticated torture that any of the others would be able to inflict over the course of a championship match.

It is separate. They occured at the same time, but they are not the same thing. In other words, the sprain is what is causing the pain, not the partial tear. Is that easier to understand?

Quote
Perhaps 'dragging' was the wrong word, but also from the Telegraph article -

"Murray revealed he considered pulling out on Saturday night. "I was thinking I had no chance because I was struggling walking upstairs"

Yes, ever so slightly different to what you said. He struggled to walk up the stairs on the evening of the day that the injury occurred. That's not quite the same as him dragging his body around painfully every day since it happened.

Quote
and that same comment appeared in other reports that I read.
Seems that Nadal is of the same opinion as John Lloyd - and Nadal is a player who, given the problems with his knees, must know one heck of a lot about pain.
I have yet to read anywhere an accusation that Murray fabricated the story, merely that he might perhaps be guilty of exaggerating things a little.

No, you were arguing that he couldn't possibly have a tear and move around the court the way he did against Troicki. That is accusing him of essentially making the whole thing up. Shall I quote you?

And in what way is Nadal's opinion even relevant? Murray did not say that the ankle significantly affected his performance. You are, like the media, putting words in his mouth. The only thing he said was that he is still not quite as confident when moving to the forehand side. The media are twisting Murray's words and then asking fellow players questions based on their alternate version of what he said. I'll even find you an example, since you are so unwilling to find this information yourself.

This question was put to Chela earlier.

Yesterday he said he seriously injured his ankle.  Did you have the feeling that he was indeed seriously injured?

Find me one quote from Andy where he states that he has a serious ankle injury. Take all the time you need.

Quote
James, if you want further argument on this issue, then go find Fuzzyballs - he's obviously up for it.

Yes, it's probably best that you leave at this point. Why express your ignorance more than you already have?
IP Logged
Aileen
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 37,291

Gender: Female
Location: Edinburgh


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #28 on: June 02, 2011, 02:30 AM »
Reply

^^ I have no intention of being bullied into coming down to your pathetic level by indulging in an exchange of insults, something which, as has been glaringly obvious on other thread, you obviously relish.
IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,179

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Mainstream media questioning the 'injury' « Reply #29 on: June 02, 2011, 02:32 AM »
Reply

^^ I have no intention of being bullied into coming down to your pathetic level by indulging in an exchange of insults, something which, as has been glaringly obvious on other thread, you obviously relish.

I'm not insulting you, Aileen. I'm calling you ignorant because that's how you are coming across.

And don't play the victim. No one is bullying you.
IP Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 ... 7 Go Up Reply 
« previous next »