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Poll
Question: Who will win?
Andy? - 35 (81.4%)
Novak? - 5 (11.6%)
Undecided? - 3 (7%)
Total Voters: 39

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Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic

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steve bywaters
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #615 on: April 02, 2012, 10:04 PM »
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Murray knows exactly what he's doing Lendl's a bloody Yes man like the rest of the "team" and soon as he says owt int' wrong tone of voice he's history. The problem with Murray's game is Murray.Who cares who laughs at who's jokes he needs to be told what a mental wimp he is. If Lendl isn't prepared to do that, and he isn't, NOTHING is going to change
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #616 on: April 02, 2012, 10:12 PM »
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Lendl can't identify anything. He just want's to be seen at the big events once in a while. As far as I can see he hasn't made a blind bit of difference to Murray who's still clueless as to why he totally bottles it against the big boys.
And no he hasn't made clear improvements. His 2nd serve is still absolute rubbish and his forehand's the worst in the top 10, even his backhands going west. Footwork's atrocious and surprise surprise his mental state's back to its pre Lendl catatonia - defeatist, happy with being an also-ran, clueless about why he flops when it matters, etc etc.
Clueless.
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scotnadian
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You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #617 on: April 02, 2012, 10:20 PM »
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Murray knows exactly what he's doing Lendl's a bloody Yes man like the rest of the "team" and soon as he says owt int' wrong tone of voice he's history. The problem with Murray's game is Murray.Who cares who laughs at who's jokes he needs to be told what a mental wimp he is. If Lendl isn't prepared to do that, and he isn't, NOTHING is going to change

Move over Mr Lendl... Steve's yer man Andy.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #618 on: April 03, 2012, 01:50 AM »
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I really think Andy is in the midst of changing his entire game to the more aggressive style slowly but steadily. I’ve first noticed it against Garcia in IW where he lost in the 2nd round. Then it was again visible against Tipsarevic. When it didn’t work out as much, he changed his game to the usual style in the middle of the 2nd set in order to win the match. I guess the main idea was to execute the game against a top player (win or loss) and for that reason he couldn’t have afforded to lose to Tipsy as Nadal was about to make the semi.  Personally, I feel he would have been more successful against Nadal than Nole at this point but anyway. This was also the reason why Andy was so error prone in the final against him.

That’s why his game in the final looked scattered and ineffective against a more consistent and solid player like Novak. This will take time of course because Andy is so used to playing his own style all his life, so given that, it’s a very hard transition. I don’t think either Lendl or Andy is too bothered by any of the recent losses and I don’t think winning another Masters or topping Federer in the ranking is the goal here either. Who wants to see male version of Wozniacki in men’s tennis? I am sure Andy doesn’t want to get to the top without getting a Slam first. I don’t know if you are aware of this but Rios, in 1998, took a lot of slack for not winning and topping Sampras in the ranking anyway, though couldn’t sustain it for a long period of time and that elusive Slam of his never really took place. You can't simply let that happen to Andy. He's better off where he is right now. Because the ultimate goal is to win a Slam first (rest will follow suit) and the only way to win it is to play a much more effective and carefully designed yet aggressive game against the three top players in a Slam. The lesser ranked players aren’t the problem here. Andy can beat these guys with his B game but not the top players and most certainly not in a Slam.

I know some of you simply hate Sampras’ game but you have no idea how killer a weapon it is to have your both serves as deadly as his and how one can pull it off time and again when your rest of the game is entirely missing. There were so many times when Pete would have a off day but his serves would always be there for him – it was that reliable. You can never make fun of such skill when it’s essentially part of the very game you play and the most deadly weapon one can possibly have. Nole, for example, doesn’t do well against great servers and with the game Andy already has, one could only imagine where things would stand if he had an equally deadly serve. I mean how many times does he get broken in each match? There can’t literally be anything more frustrating than watching Andy getting broken time and again. 

And don’t be too quick to write a legend like Lendl off. Sampras learned so many things from this guy and Pete didn’t have to even spend a whole lot of time with him. But still, Lendl practically made him an iron man who remained calm even under enormous pressure with a more devastating serve and an equally deadly forehand. The only difference is, however, Pete was younger when Lendl took him under his wing compared to Andy, but that doesn’t mean Andy can’t learn. Lendl himself admitted how talented Andy is but especially how quickly he learns. Give it time and give it a chance.

Anyway, I had to get that out of my chest.
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adb..OH
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #619 on: April 03, 2012, 07:49 AM »
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Not bad, Emma.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #620 on: April 03, 2012, 08:41 AM »
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@steve bywaters: 1) you actually don't know what's being said between them in private and you never will, so how can you know if he's a "yes" man or not?                   2) They've said it might even take a year for big improvements to show.
I think you're very harsh on Lendl. He doesn't seem a self-seeking publicist to me.
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Ruthie
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #621 on: April 03, 2012, 08:49 AM »
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Had to say something I couldn't stand it any more. This Lendl things a joke
Personally would prefer it if you kept a trappist silence steveb if all you can come up with is such negativitity based on no evidence.

Oh and theycanbillme I forgot about Andy coming forward to net at AO.  I'm afraid my memory isn't too good these days and matches often become something of a blur in retrospect - so I retract that comment  Whistle
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Katie
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #622 on: April 03, 2012, 09:57 AM »
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Good post Emma Jean. I liked Sampras and agree that Andy would benefit hugely from a more consistent serve. Though an encouraging thing recently has been that Andy's often able to come up with a good first serve under pressure but it would be good to have a more reliable first serve %. In Dubai it was 71%, whilst in Miami it was 55% (compared with Novak's 68%/66%) - Andy's serve seems to fluctuate a lot from match to match. To beat the top guys I think he really needs to reach at least 60%, and ideally 65% first serves in.

@stevebywaters - This is the first time I've heard Lendl being described as a yes man! Think he'd be amused by that comment. They've only being working together for such a short time, it's no surprise that big improvements aren't immediately obvious. Though there are definite signs of work in progress - court positioning nearer the baseline, bigger forehand, better attitude on court. Clay will be good for him to get more rhythm on his groundstrokes due to the long rallies, and I expect his forehand will look good on this surface.
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Whitelight
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #623 on: April 03, 2012, 11:26 AM »
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No one can dispute that Andy's game is so much bigger than Nadal's or Djokovic's, or even Rogers ...

This. The biggest joke of the century Smile Oh my lord.
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Masaka
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #624 on: April 03, 2012, 12:03 PM »
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As a new person I am quite shocked by some of the negative comments on a site that I thought was about supporting Murray. If some of these comments are meant to be by fans of Murray, I shudder to think what the comments must be like on a site that is against him. Very like some of the comments you get on Daily Mail (sorry for swearing), after he has lost. I think it will take Lendl more than the 3 months they have had so far to bring about any real change. They have to try many things, some of which might not work initially. I intend to give it 18 months before deciding it hasn't worked. Will he managed to get a GS? I hope so for his sake. Even if he doesn't he is still a joy to watch, when he is on form. After watching Nadal and NJ's marathon matches at the AO, 10 hours with no visible signs of fatigue. I am not convinced that there are not other factors involved in their achievements. I will probably get violently shot down for even suggesting that. Equally I am entitled to an opinion. I am not sure it is an even playing field. I await to see how Nadal performs in the clay court season. Will it be another magical recovery...?
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #625 on: April 03, 2012, 12:41 PM »
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Yes Steve why so down on Andy. He is always a slow starter and as he had a bye because of Nadals withdrawal I would say he was not match ready. We were disappointed with his match with Nole but it is not the end of the world. Do you forget he reached 4 semi finals in the slams last year. Give him a chance, I think if Andy had won the tie break he could have gone on to win the third set. Nole was exhausted he was lucky he won the tie break.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #626 on: April 03, 2012, 01:00 PM »
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I am not convinced that there are not other factors involved in their achievements.

I too have some doubts sometimes, although I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

I'm thinking in particular of Nadal's semi at the AO vs Verdasco in 09. Nadal declared himself virtually dead after that match and was on his way to the referee's office to scratch. He was somehow persuaded to play Federer, though, and beat him in five long sets.

I wonder too about the Djoker's remarkable transformation from exhausted semi-finalist to all-conquering hero. Can it really just be down to an emotional DC win and ditching a bit of gluten?
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michelle
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #627 on: April 03, 2012, 01:07 PM »
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As a new person I am quite shocked by some of the negative comments on a site that I thought was about supporting Murray. If some of these comments are meant to be by fans of Murray, I shudder to think what the comments must be like on a site that is against him. Very like some of the comments you get on Daily Mail (sorry for swearing), after he has lost. I think it will take Lendl more than the 3 months they have had so far to bring about any real change. They have to try many things, some of which might not work initially. I intend to give it 18 months before deciding it hasn't worked. Will he managed to get a GS? I hope so for his sake. Even if he doesn't he is still a joy to watch, when he is on form. After watching Nadal and NJ's marathon matches at the AO, 10 hours with no visible signs of fatigue. I am not convinced that there are not other factors involved in their achievements. I will probably get violently shot down for even suggesting that. Equally I am entitled to an opinion. I am not sure it is an even playing field. I await to see how Nadal performs in the clay court season. Will it be another magical recovery...?
Totally agree with you and for sometime I have had my doubts re Nole, who up to last year was not able to play in hot conditions or keep going in long matches. However everything eventually comes to light. We will see the Lendl factor I feel sure during the clay season, and Andy was certainly undercooked because of the WO's. There are always those on this site are very harsh, but this is countered by the rest of us. Welcome, good to have you on board.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #628 on: April 03, 2012, 01:37 PM »
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Had to say something I couldn't stand it any more. This Lendl things a joke

Nonsense.
Lendl is perhaps the only person that will be able to get through to him.
His forehand has obviously improved & he is playing much closer to the baseline nowadays. He is slowly but surely getting more aggressive in his shot slection on the big points too.And he always had it in him anyway. Consistency is not the problem as much as you think it is. I've seen Murray get to the finals of the AO dropping only 1 set. And then implode. It is clearly a confidence thing. These nerves at the ultimate moment have so far got the better of him and he has crumpled into his passive negative ways when he needed to be a warrior more than ever. Lendl has been through this and if he can offer some moral support and a way through this then he is probably worth his weight in gold. He'll get over this eventually anyway but he must never forget to take the initiative and from what i saw in that 5 setter in the AO against Novak it is clear to me that he is ready to go that extra final step as he was more aggressive than the world number 1 was for much of it. He needs a bit of time however.
As for this latest dissapointment it is clear that one 2nd round match in IW and 3 miami matches was not preparation enough for Andy to be able to beat Novak in a masters final. And it probably wouldnt have been for anyone else either, particulalry a certain Rafael Nadal who never seems to be able to get one over Novak these days regardless how match sharp he is.
[ Last edit by theycanbillme April 03, 2012, 03:11 PM ] IP Logged
theycanbillme
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Re: Miami F: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #629 on: April 03, 2012, 01:47 PM »
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This. The biggest joke of the century Smile Oh my lord.

 


Get lost interloper!
[ Last edit by theycanbillme April 03, 2012, 01:57 PM ] IP Logged
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