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Poll
Question: Who will win?
Murray in 2 - 6 (26.1%)
Murray in 3 - 14 (60.9%)
Berdych in 2 - 0 (0%)
Berdych in 3 - 3 (13%)
Total Voters: 20

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Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych

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blueberryhill
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #600 on: April 21, 2012, 03:15 PM »
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Well played Nole! Had the strength to grind it out in horrible conditions. Unless I'm very much mistaken it'll be a Rafa v Nole final which I'm really looking forward to but hope the conditions improve.
It's the anger that I find totally incomprehensible when Andy loses. It's almost as if some people take his losses personally. Shrug
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deb
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #601 on: April 21, 2012, 04:00 PM »
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And there we go.  Djoko through to final.  Unless a miracle happens, it's going to be yet another Djoko/Nadal event.  Hope Djoko wins.  Going to be really emotional if he does because he wants the win in honour of his granddad.
That would be nice, but for me I would love Raffa to win.
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BigNose
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #602 on: April 21, 2012, 04:33 PM »
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blueberryhill

Its just disappointment because we want him to be No1. If Andy was a top 50 player we would be delighted if he reached QF of a Masters event.

Not surprisingly the Joker beat Berdych. The excuse that Andy hasn't got used to clay yet obviously doesn;t apply to Djokovic. He doesn't need time to get used to it. Joker, Nadal and Federer are a level above Andy imo. I honestly can't see Andy breaking into this top group. People say he's improved since last year but he has about the same number of points as he had last year at this time.

Looking back at yesterdays match if we are being honest the last 2 sets were a cakewalk for Berdych. Andy was broken twice in the 2nd set and 3 times in the 3rd. Berdych was only broken once, in the 3rd set. Even in the first set Berdych had 3 set points before the tie-break. So for me there are no signs this is the year Andy wins a Slam. He's doing great and Im Scottish and very proud of Andy but I honestly think he has reached his ceiling and number 4 is where he belongs.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #603 on: April 21, 2012, 04:47 PM »
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Have to agree, Big Nose. I don't think there's been significant improvement in the last three years. From time to time, he'll wheel out a big new forehand, but he can't keep it up and muscle memory kicks in.

He is a class below the top three and, while he has to beat two of them to win a slam, it's not going to happen. I've kind of resigned myself to this and decided to just enjoy his matches. He's pretty entertaining.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #604 on: April 21, 2012, 05:36 PM »
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BigNose@ 4.33. Disappointment I totally get. Anger I don't.
Andy had his best Slam year last year. Let's wait and see b4 we write him off.
Two more years yay
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backhandslice
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #605 on: April 21, 2012, 05:41 PM »
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BigNose Grab-Copy ..You two are quite harsh  on Andy   of course there has been a improvement!!  do you really want to go back to horror days of the last 2 years where Andy was struggling and wasn't in the right frame of mind?    Its just the start of the clay season and already your criticizing him.  I believe that Andy will surpass Fed  Smile  and I believe that he will win a GS  and he will beat 2 of the big 3  He will!!   Of course he might not be as good as Nole and Rafa  but if that's all you want as a Murray fan then you my friend will not enjoy being a Murray fan and basically your a glory hunter.  Of course I want to see him at the very top of the game..  but do you know how bloody hard that is for him to do?!  Once this season ends  all the people who are being so negative  and saying he's just such a failure.. will eat their  words !!  
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Aileen
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #606 on: April 21, 2012, 05:51 PM »
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Have to agree, Big Nose. I don't think there's been significant improvement in the last three years. From time to time, he'll wheel out a big new forehand, but he can't keep it up and muscle memory kicks in.

He is a class below the top three and, while he has to beat two of them to win a slam, it's not going to happen. I've kind of resigned myself to this and decided to just enjoy his matches. He's pretty entertaining.
Oh come on Nigel - he has improved on clay at least over the last two years.

Also never say never.  But like BBH I give him another two years in which to win a Slam.  Meanwhile I'm content just to take his matches as they come - rejoice about the good ones and feel disappointed (but why feel angry?  I don't get that either) about the ones he loses.  Even if he never wins a Slam, Andy's the best player Britain has ever had and of that I am very proud, even more so, I freely admit, because he's a Scot.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #607 on: April 21, 2012, 05:55 PM »
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Me to Aileen as you say Andy is the best player Britain has ever had. I am VERY PROUD of him because he is a Scot an has to put up with all the rubbish thrown at him.
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deb
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #608 on: April 21, 2012, 05:58 PM »
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Well said Aileen and John exactly the way I feel about Andy,  Plus personally i think he will be number 3 soon !!
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backhandslice
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #609 on: April 21, 2012, 06:01 PM »
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LB  and Aileen  Smile  I'm a proud Scot as well  and I'm extremely proud of Andy  He has represented his Country well throughout his career..  there obviously has been so much pressure and expectation put on him  but I think he has handled it pretty well.  Onwards and Upwards.   cmonandy Smile  plus I thought Andy had a fabulous clay season last year  Smile   Remember he went out early in Madrid last year !!! .So because of this  I expect Andy to make the final in Madrid this year now Very Happy 
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BigNose
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #610 on: April 21, 2012, 06:19 PM »
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Guys. Andy number 4 in the world is an amazing achievement. When you think about it Wayne Rooney isn't even the 4th best footballer in the world. He's probably around 8. So Andy is a better tennis player and Rooney is a footballer.

But Andy will never win a Slam. He's simply not good enough. Recall the Aussie Open semi with Joker. Andy goes 2 sets to 1 up and the Joker is on the ropes. What does Andy do. He throws the 4th set 6-1. Now if Andy was 20 Id say it was inexperience. But Andy is 24 and is no rookie.  So, for me, that 4th set collapse was the mark of someone just not good enough. For whatever reason. Plain and simple.

But you know what. Its great watching him. And who know one day he just may win a Slam. But it will be against the odds and a massive surprise.
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Katie
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #611 on: April 21, 2012, 06:35 PM »
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But Andy will never win a Slam. He's simply not good enough. Recall the Aussie Open semi with Joker. Andy goes 2 sets to 1 up and the Joker is on the ropes. What does Andy do. He throws the 4th set 6-1. Now if Andy was 20 Id say it was inexperience. But Andy is 24 and is no rookie.  So, for me, that 4th set collapse was the mark of someone just not good enough. For whatever reason. Plain and simple.

I've honestly never thought that Andy will reach the end of the career without winning a slam. I'm sure that he will. Looking at how players like Berdych and Soderling drastically improved their mentalities later in their careers, this could happen for Andy too. And with his greater talent that could well translate into a slam win. I don't think he's going to do a Novak and dominate the tour but I do think a couple of slams are a strong possibility.

The 4th set of the Aussie Open was a disappointment. But what was so heartening was the way he fought back in the 5th and so almost could have won. That's the closest he's come in one of his losing matches against the big 3. I'd say give him more time and see what he can do. Smile
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AFT
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #612 on: April 21, 2012, 06:54 PM »
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I think that everyone on here is a fan of Andy's bar a few. We all know that we could not play as he does or put up with the stick he gets but hey we are not ranked four in the world either. We are all a bit edgy because as we see from Berdych today and Simon there are others out there chasing his tail and taking their chances too. I just think Andy has to get a grip with his emotions and find a tactic to calm himself down. Rafa today-bum pull-nose-hair behind ears anything to focus on and my did they have some wind and dust today to contend with but still a magnificent effort from Simon. Jocko imperious whatever is thrown at him. Andy is not in this alone no matter how we can sympathise with his predicament. He wants the rewards he has to be superhuman just as the top three are because they will have to be knocked off their perches by another superhuman and time is not waiting for Andy to catch up. Sorry but this is a discussion board  shocking
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #613 on: April 21, 2012, 06:59 PM »
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In terms of winning a Slam - I'd give him til he retires.

Because you can just never rule him out. Sampras was winning slams in his 30's. Federer's still going strong. Other players have peaked in their late twenties (Ferrer, Fish, Bogomolov). Ljubicic won his first Masters at 31. Okay it's not a Slam. But you can't rule Andy out.

In terms of becoming the best in the world (and seriously, you can't rule that out just yet - I doubt many gave Djokovic much chance of being the best in the world just over a year ago. Now look..) then yes, two years seems reasonable.

But in this day and age, many players are peaking well into their 20's, rather than barely into them like 10-20 years ago.

It's just impossible to say. The ability is there. The consistency not. But Djokovic was the same a year ago. Consistency is something that will improve with experience. And a Grand Slam is just one tournament. You never know when someone's going to have that one tournament where they just go all the way.

Federer isn't going to be around for much longer, and I don't think Nadal will be either. Whereas I think Andy will be able to play into his 30's at a similar level as now. Sure, he may peak at 25-26, but I can see him keeping that level for a few years after and certainly not rapidly regressing once he hits 28/29. And at the moment, it doesn't look like anyone else is going to suddenly start challenging for Slams, bar maybe Del Potro.

Andy has always had Del Potro's number and has proved he can beat Djokovic in over 1/3 of their encounters. When you think of it objectively, in a couple of years time you would imagine it would be Djokovic, Andy and Del Potro fighting it out. Eventually Andy will get the better of them when it matters.

So I will just say this - believe. Tennis is no longer the young man's sport it once was, and many players are playing into their 30's. Andy has at least 7-8 years yet before he will even consider retirement. That's around 30 Slams. He may not win one when he's at his peak, but I have no doubt he'll still be contending them for any years to come. And he will win one. Eventually. Whether it's this year, whether it's in five years, I have no doubt he will win one.
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AFT
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Re: Monte Carlo QF : Murray v Berdych « Reply #614 on: April 21, 2012, 07:04 PM »
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You mean wait until the supermen retire before he wins a slam and will the others in waiting want the same? No you have to go for it now Andy while you at at the top of your game wee laddie!
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