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Author Topic: Murray's Ranking  (Read 260976 times)
Connor
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6570 on: September 07, 2013, 12:12 AM »
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Thugdal didn't have a protected ranking.  He remained top 4 just through points won before Wimbledon. Just shows how weak of an era this really is.

Exactly what I was saying earlier, Nadal hasn't needed any enhancement drugs etc. because there has been 0 competition, the era is so weak. Nadal is just playing consistently at his best and right now that's all he needs to beat everyone. Andy and Novak have significantly dropped off since Rafa returned and Federer is approaching the back door of his career.
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janetx
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6571 on: September 07, 2013, 12:12 AM »
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the other thing about the rafa hiatus is that we keep hearing this "comeback king" "big hero" story of how he came back from a "career threatening injury". but come on. if the injury was *that* serious there is no way he'd come back and play the way he has. NO WAY. look at any other players who had career threatening injuries - hewitt, nalbandian, haas, delpo, etc. ALL of them had a really difficult time working themselves back into shape.

so it is a bit insulting to tennis fans to have to listen to this and then see rafa running around like mad on hard courts (the very surface that JUST LAST YEAR he said is ruining players' careers) - and without any knee strapping whatsoever. really? and yet were supposed to believe the hard line story that he was nearly down and out of tennis for good, and now, just some months later, with no surgery or nothing, he is winning everything in sight. not just on clay. but on hard courts.
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The Gnome
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6572 on: September 07, 2013, 12:13 AM »
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i do think a lot of people suspect rafa took time out to improve his game (i.e., not just teejay1), but the fact that he claimed "injury" allowed him to have his ranking protected for a certain period and to avoid any fines, etc.

Or, he was genuinely injured and took the time during his rehabilitation to work on aspects of his game he felt needed working on.

See that's the thing about speculation, that's all it ever is, it's the same speculation that fans of Djoko & Nadal directed towards Andy for missing the French Open, they accused him of faking his injury to give him a better shot at Wimbledon.

Now people are welcome to think what they want, i have my own opinions of the above but i just wanted to highlight the misdirection that can be achieved depending on who you support. To most of us here, Andy faking an injury would be unthinkable, but put it next to the same finger pointing to Nadal, and all of a sudden we can see it all crystal clear, because he is not Andy, he's Andy's rival, and his fans also think Rafa faking an injury is also unthinkable.
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Connor
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6573 on: September 07, 2013, 12:14 AM »
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Or, he was genuinely injured and took the time during his rehabilitation to work on aspects of his game he felt needed working on.

See that's the thing about speculation, that's all it ever is, it's the same speculation that fans of Djoko & Nadal directed towards Andy for missing the French Open, they accused him of faking his injury to give him a better shot at Wimbledon.

Now people are welcome to think what they want, i have my own opinions of the above but i just wanted to highlight the misdirection that can be achieved depending on who you support. To most of us here, Andy faking an injury would be unthinkable, but put it next to the same finger pointing to Nadal, and all of a sudden we can see it all crystal clear, because he is not Andy, he's Andy's rival, and his fans also think Rafa faking an injury is also unthinkable.

Good post Gnome, exactly what I have been thinking. It's ridiculous that we cannot accuse Andy of these things when he takes time off for injury, but we can for Rafa etc.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6574 on: September 07, 2013, 12:15 AM »
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I don't think you can ever have an 'even playing field' because there is always going to be someone who is better than you or worse.

A level playing field does not mean everyone is the same level of ability.     That's just daft.    There would be no point in sport if that were the case.     It means no-one should have an unfair advantage.   Basically it means no cheating.    I could never support anyone I suspected of cheating.
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Connor
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6575 on: September 07, 2013, 12:17 AM »
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the other thing about the rafa hiatus is that we keep hearing this "comeback king" "big hero" story of how he came back from a "career threatening injury". but come on. if the injury was *that* serious there is no way he'd come back and play the way he has. NO WAY. look at any other players who had career threatening injuries - hewitt, nalbandian, haas, delpo, etc. ALL of them had a really difficult time working themselves back into shape.

so it is a bit insulting to tennis fans to have to listen to this and then see rafa running around like mad on hard courts (the very surface that JUST LAST YEAR he said is ruining players' careers) - and without any knee strapping whatsoever. really? and yet were supposed to believe the hard line story that he was nearly down and out of tennis for good, and now, just some months later, with no surgery or nothing, he is winning everything in sight. not just on clay. but on hard courts.

Those you listed will never be as good as Rafa is. Rafa has been through the same injury so many times he has become accustomed to it and dealt with it very well. He has the tenacity, fight and drive to come back to the top of his game, Del Potro, Haas etc. don't share the strong mentality that Rafa was naturally born with.
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Connor
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6576 on: September 07, 2013, 12:18 AM »
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A level playing field does not mean everyone is the same level of ability.     That's just daft.    There would be no point in sport if that were the case.     It means no-one should have an unfair advantage.   Basically it means no cheating.    I could never support anyone I suspected of cheating.

But Nadal isn't cheating, so what's your point?
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janetx
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6577 on: September 07, 2013, 12:26 AM »
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Quote
Del Potro, Haas etc. don't share the strong mentality that Rafa was naturally born with.
hmmm one could argue that this is speculation too!

Quote
Rafa has been through the same injury so many times he has become accustomed to it and dealt with it very well.

so then it's not "career threatening" like it's been repeatedly called.

what do you think prompted his change in attitude toward hard courts? or his changed game? it's quite noticeable.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6578 on: September 07, 2013, 12:27 AM »
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Or, he was genuinely injured and took the time during his rehabilitation to work on aspects of his game he felt needed working on.

See that's the thing about speculation, that's all it ever is, it's the same speculation that fans of Djoko & Nadal directed towards Andy for missing the French Open, they accused him of faking his injury to give him a better shot at Wimbledon.

Now people are welcome to think what they want, i have my own opinions of the above but i just wanted to highlight the misdirection that can be achieved depending on who you support. To most of us here, Andy faking an injury would be unthinkable, but put it next to the same finger pointing to Nadal, and all of a sudden we can see it all crystal clear, because he is not Andy, he's Andy's rival, and his fans also think Rafa faking an injury is also unthinkable.

It is nothing to do with which player you support.    There are players I would never think of supporting but I do not suspect them of double dealing.     It is more to do with observing behaviour and assessing what is likely to be the truth.    That is all any of us can do - rely on our own judgement.   Rafa is an exceptional player but his return from a career threatening injury and his level of play since beggars belief.   
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Connor
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6579 on: September 07, 2013, 12:27 AM »
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hmmm one could argue that this is speculation too!

It's not speculation its fact. Nadal has 12 Slams, Del Potro has 1 (which he narrowly won) and Haas hasn't even reached a Slam final.
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Connor
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6580 on: September 07, 2013, 12:30 AM »
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It is nothing to do with which player you support.    There are players I would never think of supporting but I do not suspect them of double dealing.     It is more to do with observing behaviour and assessing what is likely to be the truth.    That is all any of us can do - rely on our own judgement.   Rafa is an exceptional player but his return from a career threatening injury and his level of play since beggars belief.    

But that's where you are wrong, most of these conspiracy theories are being produced in defence of the player you are loyal to, it would be natural to think that Andy is being hard done by when Rafa comes back playing as he is, you become suspicious because you don't want your player to suffer injustice. Rafa hasn't displayed any poor behaviour, so I don't understand what you are poking at there either.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6581 on: September 07, 2013, 12:32 AM »
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But Nadal isn't cheating, so what's your point?

Gangsta if you cannot see that to take time off and say it is caused by injury when your intention is to work on your game, isn't cheating, there is no point in continuing the discussion.    You said yourself he was deceiving Novak, Andy and Roger in order to steal a march on them.    That is cheating.   
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janetx
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6582 on: September 07, 2013, 12:33 AM »
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^ i am talking about this business of "mental strength nadal was naturally born with" - we don't know what he was "naturally born with" - perhaps his attitude has been drilled into him by toni?

haas had repeated injury issues that slowed his career over and over. and delpo has been a tentative player since his injury. he's never really come back to what he was. i wouldn't say he narrowly won his slam insofar as he clobbered rafa in the semis and won the final set versus fed 6-2 or some such. he is not the mover rafa is though. i'd compare games and technique before more nebulous things.
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janetx
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6583 on: September 07, 2013, 12:34 AM »
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Quote
Rafa has been through the same injury so many times he has become accustomed to it and dealt with it very well.

so then it's not "career threatening" like it's been repeatedly called.

what do you think prompted his change in attitude toward hard courts? or his changed game? it's quite noticeable.

many think it's cheating or at least disingenuous to say you have a "career threatening injury" but then to spend that hiatus actually retooling your game for an assault on hard courts.

many players could be served well by 7 months off to practice and hone their games. but can a player just pull out of competition to do that?
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Connor
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #6584 on: September 07, 2013, 12:34 AM »
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Gangsta if you cannot see that to take time off and say it is caused by injury when your intention is to work on your game, isn't cheating, there is no point in continuing the discussion.    You said yourself he was deceiving Novak, Andy and Roger in order to steal a march on them.    That is cheating.   

No I haven't implied that, don't twist things. I don't see it as cheating, no, because he was genuinely injured, all I said was that it wouldn't be wrong if he did take 7 months off without informing anyone to work on his game, I didn't even suggest THAT is what he was up to.
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