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Question: What will andys ranking be @ end 2014?
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Murray's Ranking

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marathonarthur
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7470 on: January 31, 2014, 10:31 PM »
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I don't think Andy will be able to count Davis Cup and Acapulco because of the 0 penalties.

Just working out how he's got to 4755 - he's gained 40 points this evening, which are added to the 15 from the WG play-off, and that's replaced the 20 from Doha, so he's up 35 points. Simple!



Surely as Acapulco is a 500 event he will have his mandatory three and can replace a zero points with whatever he scores there?  We need a ranking expert here!
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Elly
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7471 on: January 31, 2014, 10:33 PM »
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Yamor - where are you???
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marathonarthur
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7472 on: January 31, 2014, 10:51 PM »
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To confirm my point Stan has all his three 500 events in his non countable so Andy's zero should go there and Acapulco, if he scores with the other two zeros as part of the points calculation!

That would be fair! They both have done their mandatory three and put in their best results.
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Elena
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7473 on: January 31, 2014, 11:00 PM »
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Surely as Acapulco is a 500 event he will have his mandatory three and can replace a zero points with whatever he scores there?  We need a ranking expert here!

They have to do 4x500s, which can include Monte Carlo. I think the 0 penalties last for the year until the drop date - but I could be wrong. Nadal had 0 point penalties lasting through the year last year.

Stan's 0 points for Basel and Acapulco are because he lost in his first matches (R32), they are not penalties.

Just spotted this in the FAQs though: "For 2014 commitment and ranking purposes the London Queens and Halle ATP World Tour 250 events will be included in the minimum requirements for the 500 category". So that's good news

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marathonarthur
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7474 on: February 01, 2014, 12:05 AM »
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They have to do 4x500s, which can include Monte Carlo.


Studied the make up points for other players and see why Andy will have to lose an event to add in Acapulco points. Think it unreasonable to punish those injured but in the end it will work in his favour as when the penalty points events get to their drop date he could have some points in reserve if he scores badly in those as a low score can be dropped! Makes the period after the US Open a big opportunity? 

I think that ATP should consider some rethinks after this but I doubt if they will. I am disappointed but hey if he plays well then eventually he will get to a ranking he deserves!

One last question. 

There are many top 30 players without 4 500 events. Surely they should lose a result as a penalty too?

That's it. Shall watch James Ward now as it needs my attention.
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marathonarthur
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7475 on: February 01, 2014, 11:36 AM »
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What a great result!  Better than dwelling on the rankings. If Andy plays as he did yesterday  as a man who knows he is good (without Federer arrogance) then it will be at least quarters and semis all the way with some titles and finals as well so ranking will sort itself. Well done James Ward too. Never liked Querry!
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Elena
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7476 on: February 01, 2014, 04:34 PM »
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I think that ATP should consider some rethinks after this but I doubt if they will. I am disappointed but hey if he plays well then eventually he will get to a ranking he deserves!

One last question.  

There are many top 30 players without 4 500 events. Surely they should lose a result as a penalty too?

That's it. Shall watch James Ward now as it needs my attention.

It's the same for everybody - Andy's not a special case. A couple of years ago Nadal argued for a 2 year cycle, so points would be kept for two years - but didn't get much support for that. He slipped down the rankings when he was out with injury.

Looking at the top players, I think most have 4 x 500 if you remember to include MC

Nadal has MC and 3x 500, so can count his best 6 results (+ WTF, Slams, 8x Masters 1000)
Djoko has MC, 2 x 500 and one 0 penalty, but only has one other result to count (DC)
Stan has MC and 3x 500 so can count his best 6 (which doesn't include any of the 500s!) Same for Tsonga.
Delpo has MC and 5x500s! His MC points are in his non-countables as MC is not a mandatory 1,000,  so can be replaced.
etc...

It does all make sense to me now, though it's taken a while!

Good news though that Queens will be counted in the 500 category this year although still only a 250 until next year.
[ Last edit by Elena February 01, 2014, 04:38 PM ] IP Logged
marathonarthur
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7477 on: February 01, 2014, 06:10 PM »
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Elena that was useful.  Sorry that I missed that many had Monte Carlo to fulfil their commitments. So does Andy have Monte Carlo.  I still though feel that someone injured should not be penalised so harshly whoever they are.

ATP are trying to get the best players into the Davis Cup. Murray and Federer have responded Nadal, Delpo and Ferrer have not. Djokovic has opted out this year. Serbia have lost so that is no involvement for him this year within World Group ties. Stan was already a keen participant.  By participating Andy is not doing Rotterdam or Rio as it might be too much just returning from injury. I take it then that my point that one zero penalty can be exchanged with Acapulco and then the other with Queens this year is correct? He will surely by after Queens 2014 have six mandatory events!

Is that right?
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Elena
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7478 on: February 01, 2014, 06:38 PM »
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Good, glad it was helpful - hope it was right! Monte Carlo does confuse things a bit!

I take it then that my point that one zero penalty can be exchanged with Acapulco and then the other with Queens this year is correct? He will surely by after Queens 2014 have six mandatory events!

Is that right?

I think Acapulco and Queens will replace two of the 0 penalties - but the question is when? I thought it was not until the 0 penalty drop date (August/October).

Until then I would expect Acapulco points to replace DC rather than a 0 pointer - assuming he gains more than his DC points there.

However Steven@gbtennis, who knows everything, seemed to suggest a while ago, he may be able to replace 0 pointers earlier (unless I misunderstood).

Waiting to see on that one - so sorry, not very helpful!


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marathonarthur
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7479 on: February 01, 2014, 08:45 PM »
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I think Acapulco and Queens will replace two of the 0 penalties - but the question is when? I thought it was not until the 0 penalty drop date (August/October).

Until then I would expect Acapulco points to replace DC rather than a 0 pointer - assuming he gains more than his DC points there.

However Steven@gbtennis, who knows everything, seemed to suggest a while ago, he may be able to replace 0 pointers earlier (unless I misunderstood).

Waiting to see on that one - so sorry, not very helpful!


Thanks again.  I think that I will just wait and see what happens come Acapulco. As the penalty is for not doing mandatory events then I feel my interpretation  would be morally right but........................  if he does better in Monte Carlo and gets good points in Acapulco then they are in reserve in case he fails in the later events?
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Tessie
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7480 on: February 01, 2014, 10:24 PM »
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 confused
Good, glad it was helpful - hope it was right! Monte Carlo does confuse things a bit!

I think Acapulco and Queens will replace two of the 0 penalties - but the question is when? I thought it was not until the 0 penalty drop date (August/October).

Until then I would expect Acapulco points to replace DC rather than a 0 pointer - assuming he gains more than his DC points there.

However Steven@gbtennis, who knows everything, seemed to suggest a while ago, he may be able to replace 0 pointers earlier (unless I misunderstood).

Waiting to see on that one - so sorry, not very helpful!



confused

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Elena
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7481 on: February 01, 2014, 10:45 PM »
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confused confused



Haha ....it made sense (to me) at the time!
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Tessie
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7482 on: February 01, 2014, 11:12 PM »
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Elena you do well. So much of it goes over my head.
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marathonarthur
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7483 on: February 01, 2014, 11:46 PM »
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Elena you do well. So much of it goes over my head.

Agree that was well set out. Just a pity the rules do not help Andy's ranking at this time.
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benniebone
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Re: Murray's Ranking « Reply #7484 on: February 02, 2014, 11:30 AM »
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just when I think I'm beginning to understand the ranking and points system I come across this conversation and I'm lost However I've made notes and hope that events will make things clearer
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