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Question: What will andys ranking be @ end 2014?
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Murray's Ranking

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just when I think I'm beginning to understand the ranking and points system I come across this conversation and I'm lost However I've made notes and hope that events will make things clearer

Sorry if we have confused you.  The question of when penalty points are dropped is an issue that might keep Andy further down the ranking than some of us feel he should be! I have decided now just to wait and see what ATP do if it becomes an issue after Acapulco because whatever we say it will have no impact.
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thanks for the encouragement marathonarthur I shall wait and watch There's always something for me to learn when it comes to tennis
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Sorry if we have confused you.  The question of when penalty points are dropped is an issue that might keep Andy further down the ranking than some of us feel he should be! I have decided now just to wait and see what ATP do if it becomes an issue after Acapulco because whatever we say it will have no impact.

You are learning more and more. lol Maybe I'm no longer the fountain of knowledge you once saw me as. Shrug
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Gangsta, we never had 100% certainty as to when penalty points were dropped  so were a little in the dark still. It will take a while, if ever possible, to get to your level of Knowledge.
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yikes one needs to study at ph.d level to understand the points system.  I think I'll just let it be and hope Andy returns to his true ranking asap.
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Still a long way away I know but here are the current points standings in the race to london.

http://m.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/YTD-Singles.aspx
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it is a long way to go but what an interesting mix. 
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Still a long way away I know but here are the current points standings in the race to london.

http://m.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/YTD-Singles.aspx

The breakdowns on the ATP site for the Race to London are interesting as they include all the penalty point scores for 2013! I assume that they will stay until the same event for 2014 to make the penalty biting? I am glad that I did not compete in a sport where you are penalised for being injured.
 
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The breakdowns on the ATP site for the Race to London are interesting as they include all the penalty point scores for 2013! I assume that they will stay until the same event for 2014 to make the penalty biting? I am glad that I did not compete in a sport where you are penalised for being injured.
 

It is interesting that the 0 points are there - so it does look as though they will be there for the 12 months since the event. I don't think it will make much difference to Andy though, unless he starts playing a lot of 250s and 500s that he then can't count - which seems fairly unlikely! The 0 points for Roland Garros, Shanghai and Paris couldn't be replaced with anything else anyway
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Elena,  Both Wawrinka and Nadal have 0 point events listed for their 2014 Race points so it is done consistently.  I just thought it strange to show any 2013 events in a 2014 points tally. We are all thinking it makes little difference as come the events any progress will mean a new score so it makes you wonder why it is included. Absolutely no point unless there is some other way to penalise these players that we have not identified? Keeping them in as you say just reduces the number of scoring events included for the 18 for a period as many cannot be replaced except by same tournament. Monte Carlo may mess it up a little as it still can be a 1000 or a 500 event?   

Penalty points only affects the short term position not the final year end ranking so in this case a rather futile bit of manipulation of detail. What we are getting here is that Andy's ranking in both the Race and the overall will be kept lower until later in 2014. For the latter it may influence tournament seedings. I doubt if he will care much but may be irritated as we are. I have decided to be aware of the situation and look forward to when the penalty points are dropped to see where he is then. A long wait!
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^ I'd never noticed the 0 penalties in the race rankings before - perhaps hadn't looked at the points breakdown so early on. Will just wait and see what happens.

No of tournaments played seems to be more accurate than it was, but not sure why Nadal gets 0 for Davis Cup!

Looking ahead - we musn't forget that Andy's brilliant record on grass over the last 18 months will help with the special Wimbledon seeding - that formula flummoxed the lot of us last year I think!
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Speaking of Wimbledon, and I know, it's way too early, surely Andy will get a top four seeding for that, won't he?

Assuming he isn't back in the top four by then, which if I understand the discussion properly, he might not be, they surely can't seed Andy five or six for Wimbledon, not when he won it last year and having done so well on the grass for the last two years.

I know the other slams do stick to rankings, but Wimbledon has its own formula, so that must surely benefit Andy?
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Speaking of Wimbledon, and I know, it's way too early, surely Andy will get a top four seeding for that, won't he?

Assuming he isn't back in the top four by then, which if I understand the discussion properly, he might not be, they surely can't seed Andy five or six for Wimbledon, not when he won it last year and having done so well on the grass for the last two years.

I know the other slams do stick to rankings, but Wimbledon has its own formula, so that must surely benefit Andy?

Anything could happen between now and Wimbledon, with lots of points for players to win and/or defend. Nadal & Djoko are well ahead of the rest, and I'd expect them to be in the top 4, but there's only 1400 points between no 3 and no 8.

Yes, the Wimbledon formula should help Andy
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^ I'd never noticed the 0 penalties in the race rankings before

Elena,

It was a surprise to me too. At first I thought it was an error but it was done consistently throughout. Considering that they will get replaced when they play those tournaments in 2014 it seemed utterly pointless if you can excuse the pun!
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It's just been announced Andy has taken a wildcard for Rotterdam.
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