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AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic

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Bevc
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1320 on: January 29, 2012, 06:06 AM »
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Interesting viewpoint from Gilbert and yourself. Perhaps you're right, but I still can't get my head around the fact that Andy, wanting a major title more than anything else and especially after losing abysmally to Djoko last year would become complacent, moments after winning a tie-break? A tie break meant the previous set was a close shave and Andy wanted that place in the final, so what reason had he to suddenly stop trying?
He knows Djoko doesnt give up and he knows his acting tricks too. For that reason alone it beggers belief that he consciously just sat back and let his big chance slip away.

It's baffling why his game collapsed as it did in the 4th. Especially with all his efforts to his game and finally acquiring Lendl to help him beat the best.

I dont have a plausible explanation. It could have been mental and/or physical, but only Andy or Lendl will know the reason.

Quote from: scotnadian on Yesterday at 06:56 AM
Andy says it was adrenalin let-down (this is transcript of post match interview on AO website) :-


Q. It's a match of almost five hours. Novak said it was one of the hardest matches he ever played. How did you feel physically towards the end of the match?
 
ANDY MURRAY: I mean, that's the thing. I actually felt okay towards the end. You know, I was tired. You have the huge adrenaline rush at the end of the third set. Then you have a bit of a letdown and things start aching and are sore.
 
Towards the end of the fifth set I was actually feeling okay because the adrenaline gets back up and everything feels all right.
  I'm sure that when I stand up from this seat, my body's going to be pretty painful.
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lashurst
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1321 on: January 29, 2012, 11:14 AM »
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Quote from: scotnadian on Yesterday at 06:56 AM
Andy says it was adrenalin let-down (this is transcript of post match interview on AO website) :-


Q. It's a match of almost five hours. Novak said it was one of the hardest matches he ever played. How did you feel physically towards the end of the match?
 
ANDY MURRAY: I mean, that's the thing. I actually felt okay towards the end. You know, I was tired. You have the huge adrenaline rush at the end of the third set. Then you have a bit of a letdown and things start aching and are sore.
 
Towards the end of the fifth set I was actually feeling okay because the adrenaline gets back up and everything feels all right.
  I'm sure that when I stand up from this seat, my body's going to be pretty painful.
Exactly Bev. I have just posted on the other thread ("Murray edged out etc.") about the effects of hormones and neurotransmitters.  
To me anyway, it's absurd to suggest he stops trying because he thinks the match is in the bag with 2 sets to go still!
I hope some agreee with me? Otherwise, thiey are saying he does not have enough drive in him to win a major and loses because of his own complacency.

Hope the team can figure it out between them.
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lashurst
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1322 on: January 29, 2012, 03:31 PM »
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Well Djoko did it. Lifts the trophy again in Melbourne. Have to take my hat off to him. There was no acting this time and how he did it physically is a mystery after the Murray match.

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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1323 on: January 29, 2012, 03:33 PM »
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You know if you are going to lose in the semis, I would hope you lose to the eventual winner of the finals..  And that's what Andy did. Novak won in five sets over Rafa. Andy needs to be so proud of himself, and he will be once he gets over the loss. He pushed Novak to the limit and almost had him. He just has to see it that way. I like many of you am still mourning for Andys loss but I feel he will come back even better and stronger.
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1324 on: January 29, 2012, 03:45 PM »
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I believe that despite significant improvements, Murray's service game is still a liability, and so to win big matches he has to play like a maniac when returning, to recover lost ground. This must require ludicrous levels of adrenaline which leaves him vulnerable to sudden, massive dips when the effect wears off. If he were to develop his serve to be a consistent, dependable part of his game, he won't need to rely on as many adrenalised, superhuman efforts and won't fall prey so much to mysterious dips in performance.
[ Last edit by lionel January 29, 2012, 04:21 PM ] IP Logged
MT
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1325 on: January 29, 2012, 04:23 PM »
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I believe that despite significant improvements, Murray's service game is still a liability, and so to win big matches be has to play like a maniac when returning to recover lost ground. This must require ludicrous levels of adrenaline which leaves him vulnerable to sudden, massive dips when the effect wears off. If he were to develop his serve to be a consistent, dependable part of his game, he won't need to rely on as many adrenalised, superhuman efforts and won't fall prey so much to mysterious dips in performance.

Yes I noticed in todays final there were only about 4 double faults - Andy
has too many and often at very crucial moments. Is his 2nd serve something that can be improved or is it impossible?
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Ruthie
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1326 on: January 29, 2012, 04:56 PM »
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Yes I noticed in todays final there were only about 4 double faults - Andy
has too many and often at very crucial moments. Is his 2nd serve something that can be improved or is it impossible?
I don't see why his 2nd serve can't be improved.  Actually there have been periods when it has improved but not consistently enough.  That might be something Mr L can help him with.  And sometimes when his 1st serve is on song he gets lots of free points with it including at v tense points in a match.  But again, it's finding the consistency on his 1st serve too.
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1327 on: January 30, 2012, 07:58 AM »
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You just can't get away with an inconsistent serve in the last stages of a GS especially when facing good returners.  

Some of us keep saying it's mental, it's his head, it's what's between the ears.  But it helps mentally, if every time it's his time to hold, he knows that he's not going to be vulnerable.

BTW, those 4 doublefaults in the final were crucial.  2 were from the 2nd set - both Nole and Rafa doublefaulted the last point to get broken.  If I remember correctly, the other 2 were also at the worst times from the 5th set.

And speaking of doublefault, there was one when Andy should have served out the SF against Nole in Rome.  A doublefault and a bad luck with the netcord.  

[ Last edit by NDMS January 30, 2012, 08:21 AM ] IP Logged
theycanbillme
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1328 on: January 30, 2012, 08:25 AM »
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Yes I noticed in todays final there were only about 4 double faults - Andy
has too many and often at very crucial moments. Is his 2nd serve something that can be improved or is it impossible?

Look if players in the top 200 can have higher serve % than one of the most talented players ever, then what's the point of putting up with that?
The first serve has greatly improved so I don't see why the 2nd serve cant do the same. It's needs tweaking he needs to try different looks more/slice pace etc to find the right combination. It doesn't have to be perfect but it needs to be better and he needs to focus on it stat!
As ndms says its partially a mental thing but I think it's also a technical thing too but how much of the other is up to Lendl/Murray to sort out together.
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1329 on: January 30, 2012, 08:55 AM »
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As ndms says its partially a mental thing but I think it's also a technical thing too but how much of the other is up to Lendl/Murray to sort out together.

Yes, I agree - in fact I think it's more a technical issue than a mental one. His serve often goes awol in matches against limited opponents which suggests to me that he's not caving in under stress. He just hasn't been able to maintain the kind of consistency in his serve that he needs at the highest level. This deficiency is putting way too much pressure on his return game, which is fabulous, but it's not doing him any good to have to constantly dig his way out of holes that his erratic service game is putting him in. Lendl needs to turn Murray into a serving robot - so each service game looks much like another. This will make Murray slightly less exciting, because we'll have fewer of the rollercoaster rides we're used to. But it should also mean he starts winning the big ones  Smile
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michelle
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1330 on: January 30, 2012, 09:03 AM »
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If you noticed that during practise time with Lendl they were working on Andy's serve and I'm positive they will be working on both his first and second serve, they know far better than we do the areas Andy needs to work on. If he is still has this nerve problem in his back I would suggest that this would affect his serve. I for one am very excited to see Andy climbing the ranks and winning many tournaments. The top 4 are way ahead of the others and we are living in exciting times.
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lionel
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1331 on: January 30, 2012, 09:32 AM »
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If you noticed that during practise time with Lendl they were working on Andy's serve and I'm positive they will be working on both his first and second serve, they know far better than we do the areas Andy needs to work on. If he is still has this nerve problem in his back I would suggest that this would affect his serve. I for one am very excited to see Andy climbing the ranks and winning many tournaments. The top 4 are way ahead of the others and we are living in exciting times.

Yes, I'm sure Andy's serve is being focused on and it will get much better. The good news is that Djokovic and Nadal are probably about as good as they're ever going to get, while Murray has massive room for improvement. He's already snapping at their heels, so if he can only iron out that serve I expect nothing less than a period of Murray domination!
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1332 on: January 30, 2012, 10:30 AM »
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The top 4 are way ahead of the others and we are living in exciting times.

This is so true and it is proved with the composition of the semi finalists in recent Grand Slams.As for the serve I am sure that no one is more aware of it than Andy and aren't double serves usually caused by trying for too much on the second serve?We can be sure this aspect of Andy's game gets continual attention. Let's get real though 5 consecutive GS semis is success not failure. The big one is not going to be easy with current standards but I am sure it is not too far away.
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theycanbillme
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1333 on: January 30, 2012, 10:43 AM »
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Yes, I'm sure Andy's serve is being focused on and it will get much better. The good news is that Djokovic and Nadal are probably about as good as they're ever going to get, while Murray has massive room for improvement. He's already snapping at their heels, so if he can only iron out that serve I expect nothing less than a period of Murray domination!

I agree with this completely, at this stage of Novaks dominance Andy is already knocking heavily at the door, which could not be said of his relationship with fedal.
Hes older and better now, but first he needs to start doing what Novak has begun to do, although he's had more time and opportunites to do it and that's to beat Nadal & federer consistently in slams.
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scotnadian
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Re: AO 2012 SF: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1334 on: January 30, 2012, 06:38 PM »
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Serve?....How about if he and Ivan hung out with Milos Raonic for a while..? I'm sure Milos would be thrilled! Whistle
There's an old saying... "Slow and steady wins the race..." yes
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