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Poll
Question: Predict the outcome?
Not on your life. - 7 (16.7%)
Murray in 2. - 8 (19%)
Murray in 3 - 25 (59.5%)
Djokovic in 2. - 2 (4.8%)
Djokovic in 3. - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 42

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Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic

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Sir Panda
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1635 on: October 15, 2012, 09:38 AM »
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I thought it was a solid week from Murray. He obviously wasn't 100%, but he was excellent at times against Federer, really bullied his serve, which isn't easy to do.

And he had five match points to win the whole thing. Just shows you the fine margins of sport.

Still think he'll win either Paris or WTF. He hasn't had a barren year at the Masters events since 2007.
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tamila
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1636 on: October 15, 2012, 09:42 AM »
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Thanks for posting this.  I didn't think he would be too upset by this loss but perhaps against Federer he would have been.  I will say again it coul dhave gone either way especially as I am sure Andy has still not recovered from his virus.  It takes quite a long time for the body to recover from a virus especially if you play top class tennis while nursing it.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1637 on: October 15, 2012, 09:46 AM »
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Gr8 interview. Thanx 4 posting clap
Gr to c him so positive and philosophical. yay


@ Sir Panda, I'd have thought winning either of those is unlikely.
Much as I hate to say it, Fed is pretty dominant indoors Frown
[ Last edit by blueberryhill October 15, 2012, 09:53 AM ] IP Logged
backhandslice
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1638 on: October 15, 2012, 09:57 AM »
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I bloody hate Paris.     
vi partir !!!!
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Sir Panda
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1639 on: October 15, 2012, 09:58 AM »
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Gr8 interview. Thanx 4 posting clap
Gr to c him so positive and philosophical. yay


@ Sir Panda, I'd have thought winning either of those is unlikely.
Much as I hate to say it, Fed is pretty dominant indoors Frown

He's not playing well enough to dominate. He's had a miserable last 2-3 months by his standards, since Wimbledon.
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The Gnome
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1640 on: October 15, 2012, 11:56 AM »
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At the risk of being jumped on, gnome was only expressing [perhaps more forcefully] what some of the rest of us say from time to time. In particular his points that some people react as if Andy were deliberately messing up at times in order to make them feel bad and what would Andy feel were he to read some of the insults.   Of course we have free speech on the forum but with free speech comes responsibility and I do think we have responsibilities as fans of Andy.  So thanks gnome for reminding people of them. 

I appreciate your comments and those of others and i still stand by what i said despite one or two attempts at flaming me, sure i may have misquoted a few people but the point still stands regarding the over critical and harsh comments of a few people on here made during not only this match but others aswell.

Yes i may have been angry when i first commented, and no i do not agree that i have no right to "jump" into commenting in this forum, it's a forum i joined in good faith to add my support of Andy and share it with others who follow Andy on tour.

I read a lot of negative and insulting comments directed towards Andy on other sites like the ATP site and others like ESPN forum and bleachers, and yes i know there is a big difference in what people say on those forums as haters of AM to what people say on this forum as passionate supporters, but seeing comments on here about andy choking or that he has reverted to playing cautious like he did before his US open win, or even worse, that he is going to lose before he even picks up his racquet i just find too much, i would have thought people would have been happy with where Andy is right now in the tennis world.

My stance on this is all to due with keeping emotions in check, we have asked it of Andy, so why should we not ask it of ourselves? I do not want people to not be affected by watchimg him play, i don't expect people to come on here if Andy plays poorly and go "aww don't worry Andy we still lover you" like the sheep on federers fansites, what i was hoping to find was some common courtesy towards him. It's not like he's a crap player, and there is a reason we follow him right? surely the flawed genius part is the main reason we appreciate him. Like everyone else on here, i was tearing my hair out with frustration when Andy fails to capitalise on 5 mp's but unlike others i do not take this as a personal affront to me in my support, i don't shout at the screen telling him why do i even bother supporting you, and i certainly have no inclination to come onto a fansite and let everybody know that i think he is a choker because of it.

Maybe i am wrong to expect the same from others, maybe.

Let's look at the Asian swing:

It was apparant that he was feeling under the weather for the last fortnight, this was not being used as an excuse by him, he could have easily withdrawn from both events but he did not and managed a semi final and a final.

The 2 matches he lost he he had match points in both, sure it would have been better if he taken them all but he didn't, ranting and raving is not going to change that, the most important thing is that the only person who has to deal with this is Andy himself, not us but him, and judging by his post match comments, i think he is far more capable of that than he ever has been. I would rather Andy lose by close margins than get thrashed and bageled in his matches.

Andy is self critical enough without us adding to the mix, do people not think that he 100% felt much more angry with himself at not being able to convert 5 MP's than we were?

The 2 matches he lost were extremely close affairs, he pushed a fit and confident Djokovic to 3 sets and a match that lasted 3 hours and i feel Andy is the only player capable right now of doing that. He nearly made Federer smash his racquet in frustration and he made Nole do the same, Andy is playing such great tennis right now that the even the 2 top players in the world are getting frustrated by the way he forces them to play.

I may be taking offence too much to what get's said on here, and i appreciate that everybody is different to their approach to watching Andy play, i also appreciate that everybody here is a fan of his, but i also feel that the comments made sometimes leaves this website open to trolling and being shown in a bad light to people who are not members who may read what gets said here. This topic for instance is not private, anybody can read it, and i already know of one instance on the ESPN website where somebody quoted a comment from here a few months ago about how some of his own fans think he's a waste of space.

Anyway like i said, i can't change people's mind on how they write during match threads, but unfortunately i cannot bring myself to read them when a match is on which leaves me with having to check live scores on ATP site which is a shame because i really wanted to join in the discussion. I apologise if i offended anyone, but this is the way i see things and i will stand by my convictions and look forward to joining in on other topics with you all.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1641 on: October 15, 2012, 12:05 PM »
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Gr8 interview. Thanx 4 posting clap
Gr to c him so positive and philosophical. yay


@ Sir Panda, I'd have thought winning either of those is unlikely.
Much as I hate to say it, Fed is pretty dominanst indoor Frown

Federer is dominant at this time due to his wise scheduling, now however he has played even more than the others have. He has for the record been beaten in Basel by Djokovic and Andy has beaten him indoors on a number of occasions. This I believe is it folks, watch both of them descend on Roger, shove him out of the way and take most of his indoor points away.
Time catches up with everyone eventually and Roger is about to leave the World Number One position for ever.
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Ruthie
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1642 on: October 15, 2012, 12:43 PM »
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I appreciate your comments and those of others and i still stand by what i said  I may be taking offence too much to what get's said on here, and i appreciate that everybody is different to their approach to watching Andy play, i also appreciate that everybody here is a fan of his, but i also feel that the comments made sometimes leaves this website open to trolling and being shown in a bad light to people who are not members who may read what gets said here. This topic for instance is not private, anybody can read it, and i already know of one instance on the ESPN website where somebody quoted a comment from here a few months ago about how some of his own fans think he's a waste of space.

 
At risk of prolonging this, I just want to echo this point.  I've made it before.  Andy's detractors can get too much amunition from reading MW sometimes.  I hadn't realised that this has indeed happened.  We do need to remember this is a public site and self-indulgence in giving vent to the frustrations we may all feel at times could rebound on Andy himself.
I hope people will accept gnome's apology for any offence called.  We need good healthy debate here and I don't think anyone is arguing against that?
Oh and great interview from Andy - v pleased he is able to be philosophical about his defeat.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1643 on: October 15, 2012, 12:47 PM »
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I hope u guys r right about Fed not dominating indoors any more.
Just have a nasty memory of Wimbledon final, is all. Frown
And it's only 4 months away.
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Elly
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1644 on: October 15, 2012, 12:54 PM »
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At risk of prolonging this, I just want to echo this point.  I've made it before.  Andy's detractors can get too much amunition from reading MW sometimes.  I hadn't realised that this has indeed happened.  We do need to remember this is a public site and self-indulgence in giving vent to the frustrations we may all feel at times could rebound on Andy himself.
I hope people will accept gnome's apology for any offence called.  We need good healthy debate here and I don't think anyone is arguing against that?
Oh and great interview from Andy - v pleased he is able to be philosophical about his defeat.
I guess a lot of us on here don't realise the impact of our comments, and to think they may rebound on Andy is quite a sobering thought. I'd like to think that no-one on here who is clearly a total Murray fan would want that to happen.  God knows it must be hard enough for him without having to grapple with crap from his fans.  I. for one, am taking all of this on board. 
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scotnadian
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1645 on: October 15, 2012, 01:02 PM »
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Dear Gnome,

You are welcome to express your opinions, just as everyone else here is with theirs.

Please feel free to check back on any of the live match threads over the years. You will find this is nothing new, but perhaps as a valued new member our match threads have just come to your attention.

I am sorry, but you cannot tell other people how to express themselves in a public forum.
Do you think Andy's face should be fuzzed out, or his words bleeped over when he is expressing himself during a match when millions of people, including children, are watching? He is, after all, purely expressing his emotions. Should we pillorise him for not behaving in the way his fans should expect?

I can provide links to other forums where posters tend to be more 'polite' in their expressions during Andy's matches. Other than that, you can always avoid the match threads here.
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Elly
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1646 on: October 15, 2012, 01:13 PM »
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Dear Gnome,

You are welcome to express your opinions, just as everyone else here is with theirs.

Please feel free to check back on any of the live match threads over the years. You will find this is nothing new, but perhaps as a valued new member our match threads have just come to your attention.

I am sorry, but you cannot tell other people how to express themselves in a public forum.
Do you think Andy's face should be fuzzed out, or his words bleeped over when he is expressing himself during a match when millions of people, including children, are watching? He is, after all, purely expressing his emotions. Should we pillorise him for not behaving in the way his fans should expect?

I can provide links to other forums where posters tend to be more 'polite' in their expressions during Andy's matches. Other than that, you can always avoid the match threads here.
I don't think Gnome is trying to tell people how to express themselves - just trying to advise how that expression may impact on the guy they support - bigger picture and all that.  As has already been pointed out - this is a public forum and as such is laid wide open to unscrupulous invasion by those who just can't wait to take what is expressed out of context.  I don't want to appear antagonistic - just trying to get a healthy balance of what is good for the man we are here to support. Shrug
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michelle
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1647 on: October 15, 2012, 01:17 PM »
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I agree with Gnome this is a public site and we don't want to give any ammunition to be used by ESPN or bleacher etc.. I tend never to read what is written during or straight after a loss as some of what is written makes my blood boil. Nor do I want to express what I feel, although I tend to think of how Andy is feeling rather than how I'm feeling as he is the one playing. There are ways of expressing our opinions and doing so when we are disappointed or even angry at the result and the way we perceive Andy has played, we need to read what we have written and see how it sounds and edit it if comes across too harsh.
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theycanbillme
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1648 on: October 15, 2012, 01:26 PM »
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I hope u guys r right about Fed not dominating indoors any more.
Just have a nasty memory of Wimbledon final, is all. Frown
And it's only 4 months away.

When Wimbledon became an indoor event it was an advantage to federer. Had it been from the offset things might have been a little bit different. Federers experience came through that time.
Andy can and has beaten Fed indoors as has Novak. So at this particular time, I just dont see Federer getting his own way again and the cracks are surely starting to show because of his exploits at Wimbledon etc.
And Novak and Andy's level right now is simply higher than Feds.
To me Federer is there for the taking, as is Paris and the WTF (a fully fit Andy is def my favourite for this) but we shall see.
[ Last edit by theycanbillme October 15, 2012, 01:46 PM ] IP Logged
Elly
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Re: Shanghai Final: Murray vs Djokovic « Reply #1649 on: October 15, 2012, 01:28 PM »
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^ Agreed.  Let's try to stick to constructive criticism (for those in a position to give it, and I hasten to add that's not me) and stop all the abuse at the guy. For those who want to vent - open a word document and write it all down there.  Not asking anyone to be a sycophant - just to be mindful of where your comments are going in the grand sea of negativity that does nobody any good - not even the person expressing them.   
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