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The Claycourt Season

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Caz
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #45 on: April 11, 2012, 07:12 AM »
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Ooooh I have to disagree with you there Aileen! Andy was so determined that day, in spite of the injured arm.....or perhaps even 'because' of the injured arm.....Hmmm!  Think   The crowd got right behind him too! They raised him up and he responded  magnificently! The look on his face showed he believed he could do it, and I definately believed he could too! Still, as you say, it's all speculation, so we'll never know!
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TheMadHatter
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #46 on: April 11, 2012, 12:32 PM »
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Disagree about Cincinnati. Andy came out all guns blazing that day, and the supposed injury didn't appear until after he broke Djokovic straight back to go 4-3 up.
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Caz
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #47 on: April 11, 2012, 01:27 PM »
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Disagree about Cincinnati. Andy came out all guns blazing that day, and the supposed injury didn't appear until after he broke Djokovic straight back to go 4-3 up.
Yep! You're right MH!
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theycanbillme
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #48 on: April 11, 2012, 02:54 PM »
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"Another thing I’d say is that, while Andy really thrives against the likes of Nadal, Djokovic, Federer etc. basically on any surface, his real danger will always lie in earlier rounds of any GS and RG won’t be any different and that is, whether there’s any pressure or not. "

Err...certainly not in Grand Slams. Andy's record against the big 3 in Slams is truly woeful. Unless I'm mistaken the only one he has beaten is Nadal. He's beaten him twice but Nadal retired injured in the Aussie Open semi-finals.  Andy is almost certain to lose to Fed, Nadal or the Rubber Man in Slams. He's almost certain to win against anyone else though. He's unlikley to lose early in a Slam because its best of 5 and that just makes a shock far more unlikely.

Andy is not certain to lose to the big 3 going on in slams going on as long as he keeps improving.
Did his loss at the AO against Novak look like a certainty?
I don't buy it at all.
His slam record as the youngest match wise of the top 4 is obviously more a testament to his development so far, and slam results are usually the last to improve as they require the most, but they have improved. Furthermore he could, like Novak has done but hadnt at all before and Roger rarely has despite being at the end of his career, still now go on to turn the tide against Nadal in slams too.
It was his misfortune to be always drawn against Nadal while his game & mentality were improving. However had it been Roger or Novak pre 2011 that were drawn against Rafa the results would probably have been the same.
Perhaps in Roger's case even worse.
[ Last edit by theycanbillme April 11, 2012, 03:14 PM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #49 on: April 11, 2012, 04:12 PM »
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Yes this is a good point, we will never know what would have happened. He was looking very convincing in the second set though, taking it 6-2 and when I was watching I felt confident about the third set. But like you say, he was even closer in the Djokovic match and didn't come through so there are no guarantees that he would have won.

It’s just that this was clay and Nadal is too big a player on clay and the final or the deciding set always comes down to mental aspect of things and Nadal is absolutely a monster in that regard. So until the final point is played and Andy has actually won that point, only then we can safely conclude a victory, otherwise things are bound to change at any point even if Andy led the final set 5-2 against Nadal on clay. If this were on hard, I’d safely conclude that Andy was going to win simply because this was no GS final and he’s most certainly the better player on hard.
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Emma Jean
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #50 on: April 11, 2012, 04:20 PM »
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Disagree about Cincinnati. Andy came out all guns blazing that day, and the supposed injury didn't appear until after he broke Djokovic straight back to go 4-3 up.


Agree re: Cincy. Andy is excellent when it comes to Masters final as long as it’s hard (and if there were any grass Masters, I’d say grass as well) and in that match, Andy had Nole on the ropes and Nole, while I agree that he must have been a bit tired by that time, he was going to lose regardless. Andy does very well around that time of the year and it’s regardless Novak or anyone else has done excellent stuff throughout the year. So I give that win to Andy without a doubt. When it comes to fair play, I most certainly don’t trust either Novak or Nadal. They have their tendencies. Roger is perhaps not as flowery with his words when it comes to giving credit to his opponents after a bad loss, at least he doesn’t rob them.

But sometimes players tend to dumb tournaments but certainly not in the later stage when so much work has already put in.
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scotnadian
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #51 on: April 11, 2012, 04:45 PM »
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Yup.. no doubt in my mind Andy was going to win Cincy. I remember thinking to myself that Nole didn't want to be seen as beaten off his perch.
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Aileen
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #52 on: April 11, 2012, 10:00 PM »
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Speculation with the benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing. Smile   I did say his win over Djoko was "debatable", which doesn't mean to say I don't think Andy would have won anyway because I'm 90% certain he would have.  Djoko's quick recovery from such a disabling injury by the USO was a bit suspect, and he did say words to the effect that he couldn't play a player like Andy if he wasn't "fit".
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #53 on: April 12, 2012, 06:48 AM »
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Like Rafa then ...... Whistle
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Emma Jean
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #54 on: April 12, 2012, 05:18 PM »
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Actually I based my speculation on a few things such as until that point their H2H on hard was 3 all and before the AO happened, Andy had 3 straight wins over Nole on the very surface and 2 of them were in Masters final and the fact, that Andy must have been waiting for an opportunity to meet with him again after AO and Rome. He was in control of the match from the start. No sluggish start or whatsoever. And also the fact that, Andy can give Nole all sorts of problems on hard courts. And since he was leading the match anyway, it favours him the most. Of ocurse what Nole says is very true as well. You have to be 100% in order to play any of the top guys and the part I find “debatable” is how “tired” Nole truly was (or that shoulder injury of his that suddenly appeared in major way in a final match he was about to lose) or that he just simply didn’t want to enter USO with a loss to one of the top guys who is usually a contender in both hard court majors.
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scotnadian
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #55 on: April 12, 2012, 05:26 PM »
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Full article here:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/apr/10/andy-murray-lendl-french-open?newsfeed=true

Within days of starting work, Lendl said there was no reason Murray could not win the French Open. Perhaps for the first time, the world No4 agrees.

"I have to believe that I can win it," Murray said yesterday at Queen's Club, as he announced that he will warm-up for Wimbledon at the Aegon Championships for the next five years. "I was going to say that I have to agree with him [on everything] but I don't have to. Last year gave me a lot of confidence and I still feel like I could have played better.

"The French Open was a really important tournament for me last year. I've said it many times, not just because I got to the semis there for the first time but because of the way the tournament went.

"Providing I have improved and that over the next five, six weeks I keep doing that and working hard then there's no reason why I can't give it a good shot. I wouldn't say I'm the favourite going in; [Novak] Djokovic, Roger [Federer] and Rafa [Nadal] have got much better results than me on clay but I think I can win against them. I need to work hard over the next five, six weeks for sure."
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Aileen
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #56 on: April 13, 2012, 12:10 AM »
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Full article here:  http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/apr/10/andy-murray-lendl-french-open?newsfeed=true

Within days of starting work, Lendl said there was no reason Murray could not win the French Open. Perhaps for the first time, the world No4 agrees.

"I have to believe that I can win it," Murray said yesterday at Queen's Club, as he announced that he will warm-up for Wimbledon at the Aegon Championships for the next five years. "I was going to say that I have to agree with him [on everything] but I don't have to. Last year gave me a lot of confidence and I still feel like I could have played better.

"The French Open was a really important tournament for me last year. I've said it many times, not just because I got to the semis there for the first time but because of the way the tournament went.

"Providing I have improved and that over the next five, six weeks I keep doing that and working hard then there's no reason why I can't give it a good shot. I wouldn't say I'm the favourite going in; [Novak] Djokovic, Roger [Federer] and Rafa [Nadal] have got much better results than me on clay but I think I can win against them. I need to work hard over the next five, six weeks for sure."

Thanks Linda. Smile  Yet another encouraging article that shows just how well Andy and Lendl seem to get on together.  Long may it continue.    

I agree - it's that magic word "BELIEVE" Andy has to get firmly fixed into his brain.  Well Andy's mental attitude has greatly improved since Lendl became his coach and last year he made the SF carrying a fairly serious ankle injury, so this year, under Lendl's guidance, who knows?  The fact that he probably won't be the favourite to win goes pretty much in Andy's favour since being the underdog often brings out the best in him.  However, there are four tournies to get through first, by the end of which we, and Andy, should have a much clearer idea of how much further his game on clay has improved since last year.
[ Last edit by Aileen April 13, 2012, 03:07 AM ] IP Logged
Aileen
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Re: The Claycourt Season « Reply #57 on: April 13, 2012, 03:07 AM »
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At least it's now certain that Federer won't be turning up at MC where he only has 180 points to defend anyway - and Nadal possibly still has knee problems.  According to TennisTalk -

"No. 1 Novak Djokovic will play Monte Carlo after missing it last year to rest while Nadal will be looking for an eighth straight title in the principality after taking treatment on his knees after forfeiting a Miami semi-final. Roger Federer, training with American Jesse Levine, will delay his clay start until Madrid next month."
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