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The Evolution of Andy's Game

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TheMadHatter
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #45 on: February 13, 2013, 03:51 PM »
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Is there a similar compilation (all winners, break and set points) of the AO SF this year out yet? Would be great to compare.
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The Gnome
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #46 on: February 13, 2013, 04:29 PM »
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Best i could find


part 1


part 2

Interesting watching highlights like this, his serve has definately improved, he is much more aggressive in his shot selection, but as you see in a 5 set match this comes at a price as the level of intensity required for 5 sets takes it's toll.

I think it's been stated before but if he had of closed the match out earlier he wouldn't have been so knackered against Nole in the final
[ Last edit by The Gnome February 13, 2013, 04:34 PM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #47 on: February 13, 2013, 04:57 PM »
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I didn't think I was being superficial, if that's what you're saying. I have suggested that it could've been his blisters here that held Andy back in the final, but on other threads I have also acknowledged that the win over Fed was huge for him mentally and so yes, I agree that he may've been unable to get to full capacity in that regard for the final.

Since this thread is about "the evolution of Andy's game," my point was mainly that mentally, too (in addition to other points both I and others had mentioned), Andy has transformed. His reaction at the end of the match seemed very collected, and to me that bodes well. So does getting that win over Fed at a slam (a mental step, and one which was particularly evident in his 5th sets versus Nole at USO and Fed at AO).

He's got a win over both Fed and Nole at slams now. Next up - Rafa! I hope Andy can begin to turn around that H2H.

No, I wasn't pointing my gun at you, really but was speaking in general. It was the point I was debating far more than the person it came from. I think there are a lot of people out there who are very quick to accept a win (any win) and don't want to look at other facts. It defeats the purpose of their gloating. Federer fans, for example, get too tight (or annoyed) at the GOAT discussion as obviously it means looking much deeper into things and considering other facts, which do not really favour Federer in any ways. Doesn’t help it either when the Nadal factor kicks in as well. They would rather take those victories without any questions or doubts because otherwise the idea of gloating wouldn’t be as satisfactory.  

I agree with our 2nd paragraph. Tennis matches are obviously isn’t simple as that. Every single thing matters – from starting your opponent to your draws to the weather, conditions, surface, injuries, mental aspects etc. and many other things. Andy is definitely coming together mentally as he’s shown signs of it already. I mean how many people truly thought that Andy was going to win the 5th set both against Nole at the US Open final and Federer at the AO semi? Not too many I suppose. But it did happen and happened quite convincingly. So he’s getting there. Both his game and mental sides of things are coming together. He’s hitting the ball with more conviction as if he believes in it. The belief system and the abilities are the two main ingredients in life after all. I don’t see anyone climbing mount Everest if they have doubts.

Btw, this doesn’t mean though that I strictly believe that Andy was going to win AO had he given maybe a bit more time or if he was 100% healthy. What it does mean is that, the chances wouldn’t have sided with Nole as much. At the very least, he would have given a true performance. Of course he tried and tried to change the outcome of the match, but it just wasn’t working due to the obvious mental lack and the fact that, he was physically slightly compromised. Against a player like Nole, you need to bring all you have.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean February 13, 2013, 05:00 PM ] IP Logged
TheMadHatter
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #48 on: February 13, 2013, 06:00 PM »
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Those highlights are excellent, thanks. First time I've watched them back. It's great listening to American comms in awe over some of these points, compared to Reed and co. nit-picking and occasionally finding time to politely acknowledge a good point.

The change in his game is incredibly noticeable, although looking back a bit unfair to judge a slog-fest with Ferrer with a match against Federer (as they have always been quite entertaining!).

Still, the Ferrer game was so dull. Just slogging, no real attempt to hit through him or put him under pressure. Against Federer, hitting it harder, deeper, and really looking to dictate.

He is still prone to playing a bit passive every now and then and that Federer match was probably his best performance of 2013, but he is much more of a complete player now he's added the aggression to his game.
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Emma Jean
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #49 on: February 13, 2013, 06:03 PM »
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The YouTube versions have no comms - just the taped match. I kind of missed it.
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Emma Jean
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #50 on: February 13, 2013, 06:09 PM »
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Andy is also hitting the ball flatter and harder these days. In fact, both in the semi and Final in Shanghai, they were constantly clocking some of his returns and forehands. One particular return was so powerful that if you blink, you’d miss it. I don’t remember Andy hitting the ball so hard and flat before. Sometimes yes, but now it seems like a regular thing. I think he’s enjoying playing tennis again now that the pressure is behind especially that big Slam monkey of his.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean February 13, 2013, 06:13 PM ] IP Logged
Elly
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #51 on: February 13, 2013, 06:15 PM »
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Don't think Andy 'chokes' his head just goes walk about now and then, and that's when he loses faith.  Frown
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teejay1
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #52 on: February 13, 2013, 07:15 PM »
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Those highlights are excellent, thanks. First time I've watched them back. It's great listening to American comms in awe over some of these points, compared to Reed and co. nit-picking and occasionally finding time to politely acknowledge a good point.

The change in his game is incredibly noticeable, although looking back a bit unfair to judge a slog-fest with Ferrer with a match against Federer (as they have always been quite entertaining!).

Still, the Ferrer game was so dull. Just slogging, no real attempt to hit through him or put him under pressure. Against Federer, hitting it harder, deeper, and really looking to dictate.

He is still prone to playing a bit passive every now and then and that Federer match was probably his best performance of 2013, but he is much more of a complete player now he's added the aggression to his game.

Just butting in, I think the next time Andy meets Ferrer could be interesting too. Andy has the upperhand in the head to head, on everything but clay that is, but a lot of their matches do seem to have been close, nervy encounters. However, is it me or is Andy playing more aggressively since Wimbledon last year? What I mean is, is it that the aggression is now more natural on him, whereas he was possibly still adjusting to making that change to his game at Wimbledon? I just get the feeling that Andy taking it on more will get him through Ferrer quicker, in slams I mean, than has been the case in the past.

It almost seems to me that as much as the loss to Djokovic at the AO last year made Andy realise he was close, and could play at the top level, the loss to Federer at Wimbledon seems to have enforced the idea that he needs to be aggressive, needs to take on his shots, to get through the 'top' players consistently.
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Elly
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #53 on: February 13, 2013, 07:22 PM »
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Just butting in, I think the next time Andy meets Ferrer could be interesting too. Andy has the upperhand in the head to head, on everything but clay that is, but a lot of their matches do seem to have been close, nervy encounters. However, is it me or is Andy playing more aggressively since Wimbledon last year? What I mean is, is it that the aggression is now more natural on him, whereas he was possibly still adjusting to making that change to his game at Wimbledon? I just get the feeling that Andy taking it on more will get him through Ferrer quicker, in slams I mean, than has been the case in the past.

It almost seems to me that as much as the loss to Djokovic at the AO last year made Andy realise he was close, and could play at the top level, the loss to Federer at Wimbledon seems to have enforced the idea that he needs to be aggressive, needs to take on his shots, to get through the 'top' players consistently.
I do believe that he needed to take a long hard look after AO Open last year.  Andy is a very (and I can't even think of the word - it's not insular, but it's like he doesn't take advice too well, but relies on his own instincts).  That's fab - nobody can tell you what to do with your life - but I think Andy knew that if he wanted to progress (and who said that he had to?) he had to take a fresh look at things and allow himself to be guided and open his mind to ideas, that maybe didn't sit comfortably with his essence.  To his credit, he has done that, and is now reaping the rewards.  If he can just go that wee bit further?  That's up to him to decide if that's what he wants.  His ability has never been in question for me.  Whether he wants to take advice and be led, has. 
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #54 on: February 15, 2013, 05:37 PM »
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Andy is also hitting the ball flatter and harder these days. In fact, both in the semi and Final in Shanghai, they were constantly clocking some of his returns and forehands. One particular return was so powerful that if you blink, you’d miss it. I don’t remember Andy hitting the ball so hard and flat before. Sometimes yes, but now it seems like a regular thing. I think he’s enjoying playing tennis again now that the pressure is behind especially that big Slam monkey of his.

Yeah i agree....
I think, in some ways, Andy hitting the ball harder and flatter, is due to an increase in confidence ....and also because he needed to increase the power or he wasnt gonna win anything. Andy has been stubborn to change that over the years....I think becuase he believed that art of winning was predominantly down to the 'chess' approach....which is the most important...but isnt the all. Brute force, aggression and ruthlesness is also required to beat Fed, Djoko and Nadal...Lendl has changed his mind on that I think...but he still needa to improve that aspect to get to No1...I think anyway.
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teejay1
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #55 on: February 15, 2013, 06:03 PM »
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I do believe that he needed to take a long hard look after AO Open last year.  Andy is a very (and I can't even think of the word - it's not insular, but it's like he doesn't take advice too well, but relies on his own instincts).  That's fab - nobody can tell you what to do with your life - but I think Andy knew that if he wanted to progress (and who said that he had to?) he had to take a fresh look at things and allow himself to be guided and open his mind to ideas, that maybe didn't sit comfortably with his essence.  To his credit, he has done that, and is now reaping the rewards.  If he can just go that wee bit further?  That's up to him to decide if that's what he wants.  His ability has never been in question for me.  Whether he wants to take advice and be led, has. 

I think Andy has taken on board things Lendl has talked to him about. I think that is clear in how he plays now. The pundits seem to think that is solely because Andy is getting advice and guidance from someone who has been there and done it, which may be a factor, but I think part of it is the way Lendl has approached things, i.e. saying that Andy taking the ball on, being the aggressor, is going to be better FOR HIM in the long run. I still feel that for a long time Andy was being told 'you won't win playing like that', but the thing is, to a point he was winning. I also still feel that Andy may have been wary to change his approach so obviously, perhaps being concerned he may not be able to play the aggressive tennis he needs to play to get through Federer, Djokovic et al. What I think Lendl has done is instill belief into Andy, that he can play like that, and he can get through those top players, by being aggressive. To my mind it is the belief that has made all the difference. Andy now looks to me like someone who knows he belongs at the top of the game, and I think that has helped him and will continue to do so.

I've no doubt whatsoever that Andy was ready to be advised, or rather, be pushed, when he took on Lendl. Otherwise, what would have been the point really? Lendl doesn't strike me as being the type to mince his words any more than Andy does. However, what I think Lendl has done is help Andy add to the game he already had, giving it an added aggression and purpose, rather than completely changing what Andy does.
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #56 on: February 16, 2013, 03:33 AM »
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Thanks for clarifying Emma Jean - I totally get your drift. There always all sorts of extenuating circumstances to both wins and losses, that should be considered to be fair. Agreed! Smile
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craighateslife
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #57 on: March 14, 2013, 10:22 PM »
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Having watched most of Andy's matches this year I have come to the conclusion the beauty in his game is slowly leaving.Where he would play with all kinds of funky variety on the backhand wing before he now flattens out every backhand in a routine trudge. There are no jazzy junky points just solid hitting.

I became an Andy fan all the way back in 2005 and fell in love with the chess game he would play with his opponents, toying with them with different spins,angles and pace till they lost their minds. That is all gone.

The last match we got to see the really creative Andy was v Gasquet FO last year. I hope against Del Potro we see a glimpse of some of his old magic against a big hitter.

 
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scotnadian
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Re: The Evolution of Andy's Game « Reply #58 on: March 15, 2013, 02:45 AM »
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I know what you mean, Craig.

He was like a fine musician.. a diamond in the rough.

But, I temper this with his intelligence to recognise that he had to evolve to be a serious contender in his current environment.

I'm thrilled by how well he's doing, but I also miss those Andy days.  hug
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