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The Murray and Djokovic Era?

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Elena
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #75 on: October 19, 2012, 01:53 PM »
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I agree Henman was a great volleyer but as others have said, and he acknowledges, he was not in Andy's league.  I can't say I was a fan as I don't automatically support people just because they're British.  He was too 'middle England' for me and I thought his attempts at fist pumping were rather sad.  But I'd never have taken the 'anyone but' stance that some Brits adopt towards Andy.  And my perception was that he got much more support than Andy has done [until perhaps post-Wimbledon this year but let's see] and didn't attract the brickbats Andy does.
I remember John McEnroe saying he didn't understand the lack of British support for Tim - if he'd been American he'd be a hero.

An article from 2007:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-465211/Why-Tim-Henman-true-British-hero.html


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Littlebuddha
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #76 on: October 19, 2012, 02:07 PM »
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No Ruthie it appears he came form the right "class" and was English. There is no getting away from it are people in England ever really going to get  behind Andy ? we will have to wait and see. I am afraid as far as UK is concerned class still remains a problem. Andy I would say comes from a normal Scottish family with no aires and graces and is a natural. I mean he does not speak with a posh accent he is who he is and I doubt if he will change. Be yourself Andy we like you as you are.
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TheMadHatter
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #77 on: October 19, 2012, 03:58 PM »
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^^ Many people in England are already really behind Andy. I would say after his recent heroics it has become a majority.
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xxdanixx
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #78 on: October 19, 2012, 04:42 PM »
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I hope you're right MadHatter,as Andy thoroughly deserves it!However,unfortunately there are still some who have yet to be convinced-I read an article the other day (by a brit) that left me absolutely steaming mad.It was nasty and insulting,and incredibly dismissive of Andy and his achievements.I couldn't believe what I was reading!I mean,don't get me wrong-I've read all the stuff over the years in the press,and some of it has been absolutely awful.But I guess with all the positivity since Wimbledon,and then the praise and celebration surrounding the Olympics and USO,I've just gotten a bit accustomed to it!I'm not sure it's the worst I've ever read about him or anything,but its the worst in a while,definitely.I was so mad at what I was reading that didn't even finish it.I don't think people like that are ever going to get behind Andy Frown
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Emma Jean
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #79 on: October 19, 2012, 04:52 PM »
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I like Tim Henman and he has always acknowledged Andy's talent but he wasn't always well behaved.   Don't forget he was disqualified at Wimbledon for hitting a ball directly at a ball girl.   He apologised profusely afterwards but it shows what can happen in the heat of the moment.    Tennis is a very intense game.   And that was during a doubles match - singles is even more intense.


But Henman wasn't a regular offender so I don't think it counts. Tennis is definitely a very intense game but I've seen far worse in other sports, where things got out of control completely even when the game wasn't of individual nature. So we can't really say that it has everything to do with the intensity of an individual sport like tennis, where all the responsibilities are on the specific individual. For me, this feels like not owning responsibility as we are all humans and we all have our dark days. I think it's perfectly normal to lose it a few times here and there, but to lose it more often begs one's mental state. There are other factors involved too; such as, sometimes players simply don’t care about how others going to react to it and continue to be that way. That’s actually a choice they make and has nothing to do with controlling one's negative emotion in public.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean October 19, 2012, 04:55 PM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #80 on: October 19, 2012, 05:09 PM »
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I don't think it's wise at all to compare Henman to Andy simply because the eras are so different on every account. Perhaps Henman was good enough but the level of competition was much higher than his level. Perhaps the speed of each surface that varied from tournament to tournament didn't allow players to accomplish as much. Perhaps they could have achieved much more with the new racquet technology. Who knows, really but it's definitely isn't a fair comparison.

As to class, I actually have no problems with the way Andy is either on or off court but I’ve had people asking me in the past, who weren’t from the same country btw, as to why Andy has such a negative body language on court while he’s so adorable off court. Even my sister once asked me that. Sampras himself admitted that at first he had negative body language but he worked on it and slowly got rid of it. I don’t think that has anything to do with one belonging in a particular “class” but more to do with one's overall attitude. There are people who don’t do well at job interviews because of the same negative body language. The moment they enter the room, the moment the job is lost and sometimes they don’t even know why. In fact, it’s a universal notion that people like positive people or positive attitude far more than negative and if one’s popularity is a bit compromised than no need to look any further.
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Emma Jean
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #81 on: October 19, 2012, 05:56 PM »
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Btw, passion is always positive and never destructive. So if someone smashes a racquet then it doesn't mean that he or she has only that much passion. This analogy couldn't be any more wrong.

But I am not judging Andy’s behavior here so no need to defend him in any ways. I love him just as much you all love him. My take is something entirely different. All this time, we’d anxiously waited for Andy to win a Slam and now that he’s finally done it, I think about his next steps – his future if you will. Where do we go from here etc. And that’s where I am at right now. I am sure they have plans but I wonder about it too and I basically want to see what’s best for him.  The reason why I brought the attitude factor up is because, all the great champions had specific goals and they simply worked toward it.

If you give it a closer look you will see that there are two types of champions in the past; the first ones are a whole level above than the second one and they had a very different attitude compared to the second one. If Andy wants to be with the ones at the top then he will have to adjust his attitude because it’s part of the deal. And if he wants to reach the 2nd level then I suppose he can get by with the way he is right now. Getting to the top is easy but staying there is a much harder work and it requires pure dedication, specific plans, the right attitude, the right game, the right mental state and finally, a will to win all the time and be ready for all occasions and all circumstances. You can’t excuse yourself saying that you are not a morning person or that you don’t like the sudden court change or that you need a bigger crowd to get through your day. So all that needs strict adjustments. Look at the way Nole has changed himself. So pumped up all the time and it doesn’t matter where you put him, he’s fine; he’s just as dedicated.

All in all, it’s a very big commitment but it’s also very rewarding and the bright side is, tennis career tends to be short, so if anyone’s talented enough and makes perfect commitment, they’ll be able to achieve it. It requires a lot of sacrifice too but it’s well worth it. If you think about all the great leaders in the world – past or present – you will see that they all had the right attitude. That’s why they were so great and followed greatly. You’d hardly see them throw temper tantrum or be very negative about their own take on things in public or even in private.
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Aileen
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #82 on: October 19, 2012, 05:57 PM »
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He was the best our country had seen since Fred Perry and was criminally under-rated for his achievements by the vast majority of the British press and public.  He added spice to the tennis year for me by giving me a home name to root for at the top end of the game for the first time in my lifetime and I was thrilled for him when he won his only Masters title.

He clearly wasn't in Andy's league, but he had beautiful net-court play and did his utmost for a country that often took pleasure in sh*tting on him, just as it has on Andy - I faithfully supported him every year and was often mocked for it, as if winning Grand Slams was the only thing that made you worthy of support.  If that were true I feel sorry for everybody that isn't Del Potro or one of the top 4.
I loved Tim's game and supported him throughout his career, as did many people I knew, although for some reason I was less nervous watching him play than I am Andy.  He had quite a big following in Scotand and the fact that he was English made not the slightest difference.  We were still proud of him because he was BRITISH and a great player as well.  I wasn't too keen on the "We love you Tim" brigade at Wimbledon though.  Not sure why.  Maybe just a bit too luvvie for my taste.

I find it strange when people complain about Andy being badly treated by the media (hopefully not so much now) because they seem to have forgotten that Tim got a lot of the same muck thrown at him, although perhaps not in quite such a spiteful, abusive way.  Also he too had to live with the spectre of Fred Perry looming over him.  I'm certain he'd have at least got the Wimbledon final in 2001 had lengthy rain delays not disrupted his momentum in the Ivanisevic semi - and that would at least killed off that particular drought.  I'm not sure though that he had the belief that he could actually win it had he got there, much as he always wanted to.







Thanks Luke.  I'll enjoy watching these. Smile

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Aileen
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #83 on: October 19, 2012, 06:03 PM »
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EJ - please cut things down a bit if you can.  It's too much for my ageing wee brain to cope with so it switches off, which rather defeats the object of your exercise! LOL
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Emma Jean
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #84 on: October 19, 2012, 06:12 PM »
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EJ - please cut things down a bit if you can.  It's too much for my ageing wee brain to cope with so it switches off, which rather defeats the object of your exercise! LOL

Why not then exercise the option to not read it? I can't be responsible for your brain if you choose to do things you shouldn’t be doing in the first place. lol
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Aileen
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #85 on: October 19, 2012, 06:29 PM »
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Why not then exercise the option to not read it? I can't be responsible for your brain if you choose to do things you shouldn’t be doing in the first place. lol
Yes but if I don't read long posts (and you aren't the only lengthy poster on here) then I might miss some nuggets of wisdom.  Anyway I was only half-joking, because I do at least skim-read them. Smile
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Ruthie
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #86 on: October 19, 2012, 06:31 PM »
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wasn't too keen on the "We love you Tim" brigade at Wimbledon though.  Not sure why.  Maybe just a bit too luvvie for my taste.

 

Perhaps it was the 'we love you Tim' brigade that coloured my memory.  I didn't watch nearly so much tennis in those days as didn't have Sky and wasn't really following a particular player.  While I agree that his tennis was underestimated I'm pretty sure he didn't have to put up with the kind of abuse that Andy does and the 'anyone but Murray' attitude of too many.  While I'm sure there will be much less of that now, like dani, I'm not convinced we've seen the back of it. 
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Emma Jean
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #87 on: October 19, 2012, 06:33 PM »
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Yes but if I don't read long posts (and you aren't the only lengthy poster on here) then I might miss some nuggets of wisdom.  Anyway I was only half-joking, because I do at least skim-read them. Smile

Well, I will post in parts then! No, but I understand. Today I just have too much time in hand. Actually it's been that way since this Wednesday as a couple of big projects have ended successfully, so it's bit of break time for me and my boss.
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Sabine
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #88 on: October 20, 2012, 06:12 AM »
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Well, I will post in parts then! No, but I understand. Today I just have too much time in hand. Actually it's been that way since this Wednesday as a couple of big projects have ended successfully, so it's bit of break time for me and my boss.

THANK YOU EMMA.lol
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Aileen
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Re: The Murray and Djokovic Era? « Reply #89 on: October 20, 2012, 04:57 PM »
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Perhaps it was the 'we love you Tim' brigade that coloured my memory.  I didn't watch nearly so much tennis in those days as didn't have Sky and wasn't really following a particular player.  While I agree that his tennis was underestimated I'm pretty sure he didn't have to put up with the kind of abuse that Andy does and the 'anyone but Murray' attitude of too many.  While I'm sure there will be much less of that now, like dani, I'm not convinced we've seen the back of it. 
I don't think we have either.  There are certain negative dyed-in-the-wool types who will never give up slagging Andy.
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