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Poll
Question: Murray vs Raonic: Predictions
Murray in 2 - 11 (36.7%)
Murray in 3 - 17 (56.7%)
Raonic in 2 - 0 (0%)
Raonic in 3 - 2 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 30

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Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct

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TheMadHatter
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #630 on: October 07, 2012, 01:35 PM »
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why are some people so obsessed of the number 1 ranking.  I don't get this at all.  Surely  slams>>>>>>>>>>>> ranking
Because why wouldn't you want him to be the best player in the sport? It's the ultimate goal.
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ProdigyEng
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #631 on: October 07, 2012, 01:42 PM »
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I'm sure Murray wants to be world number 1 because there hasnt been a brit world number 1 for a while.
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ProdigyEng
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #632 on: October 07, 2012, 01:43 PM »
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Surprisingly  smugfed today backed Andy to become world number 1
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #633 on: October 07, 2012, 01:44 PM »
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So glad Nishikori won in his own country he must feel great. As some said earlier Raonic won yesterday but was beaten today so his consistency must be in question. It appears he puts all the effort into playing the seeds then falls away in his next match. Again well done Nishikori a well deserved win.
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backhandslice
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #634 on: October 07, 2012, 01:45 PM »
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Because why wouldn't you want him to be the best player in the sport? It's the ultimate goal.

nah  tbh I would rather have 5 slams, than be number 1
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #635 on: October 07, 2012, 02:07 PM »
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nah  tbh I would rather have 5 slams, than be number 1
Why not both?
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teejay1
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #636 on: October 07, 2012, 02:22 PM »
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Hi All,

I've said it on another thread, but I'll say it again. I am delighted for Kei Nishikori. He won in front of his home crowd, got his first title for four years, and bageled revolting Raonic. I make no secret of it, I'm especially delighted with the latter point.

I would agree with whoever it was that said some of Nishikori's play today was like Andy. Some of his returns were dazzling. If he could string that together regularly he would surely threaten the top ten. I don't see him winning slams, I really don't, but he could surely go deep in to them. I'd like that to be honest, because he seems to be a decent, nice guy. Where I do think Kei could threaten, if he can keep up something like that standard he achieved today, is in those 500s, 250s.

I really do think this puts Andy's loss yesterday in perspective. Andy has just won a major. Whatever anyone says, he has won two big, big tournaments back to back, with the Olympics and the USO. It was probably to be expected that at some point he would have some reaction to that. Those of us who have followed the sport for a while have seen players win slams and then not do well in the next tourmanent, before. It happens. I guess in some ways it must be like a shock reaction almost. It would certainly seem that some players over the years have needed time to adjust to being a top player, to being considered up there with the very, very best.

It just seems to me that yesterday, when it came down to it, Andy just didn't have that extra bit of 'something' to go to, that extra thing deep inside all of the champions that usually carries them over the line no matter what. However, I don't think that gives us any reason to panic, and it certainly doesn't give anyone the right to attack him for getting frustrated. The way I look at it now, in the light of this day, is that Andy had match points, after a tussle with Raonic. Sure, he didn't get off to the best start, but he turned it around and made the match very, very competitive. He fought, and he is rightly pleased with that effort. Andy achieving those match points suggests to me that he is now reading Raonic's game. I honestly think we have reason to be hopeful that the next time Andy plays Raonic he will come through. More generally, I think the way Andy is already looking at the positives from this week and looking further ahead, is a great sign. I really do think a corner has been turned in terms of Andy's confidence.

I wonder where some of you have heard that Andy is having cortisone injections before big matches? I know he was quoted as saying he'd done it once, but I haven't heard anything on the subject since before Wimbledon. In terms of the way his back is treated, I think we have to have some trust. Andy must be seeking advice from someone, there must be people he can go to, doctors etc, who would advise him on what he can do. I just don't think Andy would do something long term that could pose a risk to his future. If he is still using the cortisone, maybe it is just to get him to the end of the year, when he can have a bit more time to deal with the problem.

I'm not sure why some persist in the opinion that there is nothing wrong with Andy's back. I beg to differ. I'm not suggesting he is unfit to play, only he and the people around him would know that, and it strikes me that if he wasn't then he wouldn't be playing, but he did look a bit stiff against Wawrinka, and also against Raonic this week. Just because Andy has not gone in to graphic details about what is wrong, it does not automatically follow that there is no problem, or that the problem is in his mind. It's funny, but Andy gets criticised for showing his feelings on court sometimes, but then he keeps details of an ongoing injury to himself and he gets accused of faking. He can't win.

I also think some are way over dismissive of Andy touching various body parts too. He doesn't do it that often, and it is not something he only does in tight situations. I can't remember what match it was, but it could have been against Raonic, I seem to remember at the USO that Andy put his hand to his back when he was actually winning, so I just think to dismiss it as some sort of nervous tick thing is a bit unfair, and just a tiny bit patronising. The fact is that you can't see pain or discomfort, and everyone experiences those differently.

I have to say it, I'd love Andy to get to no.1 in the world. I'm not bothered if it is this year, next year, whenever. That's why, the other week, I wanted some idea of what Andy needs to do performance and points wise, to get there. I think some thought I was saying I want it now and Andy was under pressure to do it. That isn't so, not at all. All I wanted to know is is it possible this year or not. I don't mind either way. Personally I don't want Andy to acheive it for me, I want Andy to do it for himself, because it is something I believe he is capable of.

Given a choice in the matter, I would go for Andy winning another slam over him being no.1, but I can see why he would want to achieve that goal. It has to be the pinnacle in any career, being considered the best in the world at what you do, and having the stats, or points, to back that up. I think Andy is also someone who likes goals, challenges. Winning that first slam was his first goal, but now he has done that he is right to set his sights higher. To reassess his sights in that way shows how motivated he is.
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laundry
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #637 on: October 07, 2012, 02:23 PM »
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Nish just broken Raonic in the 3rd, I said he will likely win this: he's been playing the best in the tournament. Everybody seemed to think it was a cert that Raonic would go on to win.
Wow, exaggeration much?

It was about 50/50, and even those who thought Raonic was favourite (myself included) never said it was a dead certainty. Christ.
How was I exaggerating? Most people were backing Raonic to win but I backed Nish. It wasn't close to 50/50 he destroyed him in the 3rd set, did you actually watch any of the matches Kei played? He was right in the zone at the final and SF he could have given anybody a run for their money playing like that.

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Alright let's not get too ahead of ourselves. If Andy had beaten Raonic I doubt Nishikori would even have taken a set. He's had a bit of a poor season from the AO 'til now, and although this win will cover his Shanghai points from last year, he still has another 300 to defend in Basel. He'll probably finish the year in the high teens.
Well I think Andy would have lost given the way both had been playing, but we can't possibly know that. I also haven't said anything about his raking position, that seems rather irrelevant to anything.

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His record against the top guys is poor and he himself is a bit too inconsistent to see off even two of the top 10 guys in succession. The talent is there to go far but he's a million miles away from the top 4 and his fitness is questionable.
Of course he's going to be a very long shot to win a slam, but 1000 to 1 is very long odds. But it turned out I was a bit pre-emptive there at his odds just hadn't been updated yet since they were shortened to 200 to 1 shortly after which is a lot more fitting.
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benniebone
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #638 on: October 07, 2012, 02:45 PM »
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Someone wanted to know how many points Andy has to defend between now and the O2
1000 at Shanghai and he lost to Berdych in the Paris Masters in the quarters so I think he has 45points to defend there so 1045 in all . Modern Tennis is a very stressful game if you aspire to the top 10
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #639 on: October 07, 2012, 02:48 PM »
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I'm sure Murray wants to be world number 1 because there hasnt been a brit world number 1 for a while.

There's never been a british player ranked no1 in modern day tennis
 
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ProdigyEng
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #640 on: October 07, 2012, 02:58 PM »
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Well that gives him even more reason to aim for it. im pretty sure he wants it and im glad guys like smugfed are backing him to get it.
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backhandslice
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #641 on: October 07, 2012, 03:11 PM »
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Why not both?

that's just being greedy lol  Very Happy
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Mackem
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #642 on: October 07, 2012, 03:24 PM »
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Someone wanted to know how many points Andy has to defend between now and the O2
1000 at Shanghai and he lost to Berdych in the Paris Masters in the quarters so I think he has 45points to defend there so 1045 in all . Modern Tennis is a very stressful game if you aspire to the top 10
Think it was 180 from Paris so 1180 in total.  Andy needs to score 1900 points more than Federer to get to No.2 out of the 4000 available (assuming Shanghai, Basel, Paris, WTF).  Federer needs to score 1600 more than Djoker to stay No.1

The 1,2,3,4 rankings are looking pretty fixed but Andy must have a chance of going into the WTF with a chance of No.2
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OldScotSupport
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #643 on: October 07, 2012, 03:36 PM »
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Just read an article in today's Sunday Times. It refers to an interview with and quote from Raonic after his match with Andy.

Raonic said: "most of the time at the US Open, I played under Murray's terms. This time I was determined to play on mine." The second sentence of this quote is precisely the comment Raonic made prior to his defeat by Andy. It is obvious that this young man has a lot to learn from AM in the realms of humility and to submerge his continuing arrogance. However, AM did not play in Raonic's terms, Andy played to his own, but it was apparent to anyone who understood Andy's play that he was not 100% fit probably due to tiredness and to his succeses in the Olympice and in USO.

In view of the result in his match with KN he really got his comeupance.
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blueberryhill
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #644 on: October 07, 2012, 03:46 PM »
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@OSS
I thought he'd had injections prior to Wimbledon and Ruthie said that he hoped they'd last for 3 months, which would be about right.
Don't think he's having them on a regular basis.
Hope not any way. Frown
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