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Poll
Question: Murray vs Raonic: Predictions
Murray in 2 - 11 (36.7%)
Murray in 3 - 17 (56.7%)
Raonic in 2 - 0 (0%)
Raonic in 3 - 2 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 30

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Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct

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Ruthie
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #555 on: October 06, 2012, 12:54 PM »
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Of course ideally Andy wouldn't be using up energy shouting at his box and swearing etc.  (But when he does, he's getting down on himself rather than blaming them usually [as I've not watched most of the match can't say for sure this time]). 
And he knows all that too.  He has quite often spoken recently about being more mature on court and not using up energy in that way.  But in the heat of the moment, especially if feeling mentally and physically tired and knowing that an old injury is causing problems again, can we really blame him?  As someone said earlier, let's cut him some slack.
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circe
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #556 on: October 06, 2012, 01:38 PM »
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I think the difference is that his open frustration didn't actually carry though into his tennis this time.  And that is a great milestone.  His first serve worked really well and he didn't miss many lines - with an annoying exception on match point.  But Raonic played better on the day, especially net volleys.    The silver lining is that Andy will have a less jam-packed season next year, without these back to back titles to defend.
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backhandslice
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #557 on: October 06, 2012, 02:07 PM »
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Some of you are being very harsh - you can't win them all. You sound like Andy has just lost 2 GS QFs. Give Andy a chance to breathe.Just beacuse Andy is the US champ and the Olympic champ doesn't mean he is going to win every single match he plays -  that is a very tough thing to do.  I thought Andy played a alright match.  Raonic played superb in some periods of the match. Overall I thought Raonic was quite lucky and Andy should of won it in the end tbh.   would you rather support a player that hasn't won a GS or the Olympics.  Exactly. So stop your moaning. It's only Japan.
[ Last edit by johnkiernan35 October 06, 2012, 02:16 PM ] IP Logged
backhandslice
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #558 on: October 06, 2012, 02:14 PM »
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Theres nothing wrong with Andys back , stop making excuses for him.  Its Andy. Hes a bit dramatic at times Very Happy Raonic was just simply too good.  Andy had it, but lost concentration in the last set. There were only a couple of points between Andy and Milos.
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Ruthie
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #559 on: October 06, 2012, 02:19 PM »
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well it's true that Andy himself has now said that his back was ok today - though why then he wasn't sitting down at changeovers I don't know.  But there is an underlying problem jk, which won't just be magicked away with occasional cortisone injections.  You sound like Virginia Wade  w00t
Anyway the point is jk WHY was Raonic too good for Andy today when Andy is the better player?  Talk about the back, tiredness etc isn't an attempt to find excuses but to understand.
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backhandslice
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #560 on: October 06, 2012, 02:35 PM »
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That is an insult - Im simply just giving food for thought. Very Happy Meh. The Asian Swing is such a lack lustre part of the season.,,,  dont really care what Andy does during it.  The real goal for Andy is to be fit for the Wtf. - PLEASE andy. Dont hurt yourself.   Smart scheduling Andy.  Do this please
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Sabine
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #561 on: October 06, 2012, 02:51 PM »
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Theres nothing wrong with Andys back , stop making excuses for him.  Its Andy. Hes a bit dramatic at times Very Happy Raonic was just simply too good.  Andy had it, but lost concentration in the last set. There were only a couple of points between Andy and Milos.

Exactly, no excuses...I hate it when people do that..I still remember Fed did that when he lost to Andy in the Toronto finals saying he was suffering from backpain..

And yes, the fact is Raonic was able to take the crucial points which Andy just couldnt stop..
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Masaka
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #562 on: October 06, 2012, 03:13 PM »
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He doesn't need to make any excuses for goodness sake. The man has just won the US Open and two Olympic medals, including a gold one. Like many folks on here I just get so incredibly weary of the subsequent nasty comments that you read on here. Looking at him yesterday I thought he looked stiff.  I don't know the man, so I don't know anything about him. However seeing the physical signs of that match on the pair of them after it, I would be very surprised if there wasn't some form of after effects. Didn't Wiggins drop out of some event post Olympics? Nobody was nasty about him.
Can we stop over analysing it - please?
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Philip
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #563 on: October 06, 2012, 03:17 PM »
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The problem with playing a big server like Karlovic or Raonic is that when they serve well, there is little the receiver can do unless anticipate and guess the correct side to jump to but this only wins you 1 point at most for a correct guess.  This is why there are very few opportunities to break and once you get into the tie-break anything can happen.  At the USO, Andy guessed correctly a few times which is why he said sorry to Raonic after that match. Of course guessing correctly a few times will lead to maybe only 1 break of serve. Andy outplayed Raonic at the USO.  The problem with playing against a big server that hits big first serves is that there is very little time to react so the margin for error is very small, a slight misjudgement and the ball goes out or into the net. Today, Andy's timing is a little off and he wasn't able to pass as well as at the USO so it didn't help.

The good news with reaching Tokyo SF is that if both Nadal and Andy don't win another match this year, Andy will finish the year ranked #3.

Andy only has Fed in his half in Shanghai so it is a good opportunity for Andy to reach the semifinal and pick up at least 360 points if not more (assuming the back is fine). The court condition apparently is slower than at Tokyo so should suit Andy's style better.

Anyway even if Andy not win another match this year, having a GS and Olympic Gold & Silver medals have vastly exceeded my expectations. I was only hoping for a GS but to get the 2 medals thrown in as well is phenomenal, not counting the Wimbledon final.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/19855199

"I hit my passing shots very well in New York (beating Raonic in three sets), but today I don't think I passed him well, so he came to the net more,"
[ Last edit by Philip October 06, 2012, 04:17 PM ] IP Logged
Jayel
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #564 on: October 06, 2012, 03:18 PM »
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Haven't seen the whole match yet, but it does seem that some are reading an awful lot into it.Andy's opponent is a big hitter it was a very fast surface I hear and anyway he lost he wasn't humiliated in any way.He is only human!!!
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #565 on: October 06, 2012, 03:23 PM »
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I'm not too bothered myself. Even the best can not win every match! I'd rather see him have a bit of a rest and then thrash the lot of them at the O2!  cmon yeah
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #566 on: October 06, 2012, 03:41 PM »
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I'm not too bothered myself. Even the best can not win every match! I'd rather see him have a bit of a rest and then thrash the lot of them at the O2!  cmon yeah

That is the spirit man!!
You cheered me up a bit Caz...thank you.
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #567 on: October 06, 2012, 03:41 PM »
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The problem with playing a big server like Karlovic or Raonic is that when they serve well, there is little the receiver can do unless anticipate and guess the correct side to jump to but htis only wins you 1 point at most for a correct guess.  This is why there are very few opportunities to break and once you get into the tie-break anything can happen.  At the USO, Andy guessed correctly a few times which is why he said sorry to Raonic after that match.

Sorry I don't agree with the last bit at all. Andy didn't just get lucky a few times, he tore him apart. It wasn't luck getting the returns back, it was his anticipation, which is why he's the greatest hard-court returner in the open era. He was reading the serve, he was getting into the rallies, and he was destroying the young Canadian lad in 90% of the rallies, passing him with ease every time he came into the net.

The apology was for a couple of 'lucky shots' - not for being able to read his return.

I agree with the first part of your post and when they are on song there is little anyone, even Murray or Djokovic, can do. That's why it's important to hold on to your own serve, and that's where Andy let himself down. Awful start, then lost his concentration a break up in the 3rd. That's unacceptable and can't simply be blamed on a big server.

Tie-breaks can be unpredictable but it's not like it's not in Andy's hands. If he loses it, it's because Raonic won at least a point on his serve - again that's nothing to do with him being a big server.

That's not a criticism at Andy, just that Raonic's serve being on song doesn't automatically win the match, he still has to outplay Andy as well on his own serve. Which he did.

Now a close three set final set tie-break defeat to Raonic is nothing to be ashamed about. But the manner of the defeat is the thing that worries me. The frustration, the racquet breaking, the tantrums, chucking away a 4-2 lead, squandered two match points.

Now Shanghai will be interesting to see how Andy responds to this.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #568 on: October 06, 2012, 03:42 PM »
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I think it's best to analyze the loss a bit but not overkill it, give it a new perspective and move on. At least that's what I am going to do.

This match was just ideal for Raonic on many accounts. It was a day match, a 500 tournament, not as big a match as the final and a player who's probably more on reflecting mode than most prepared and highly focused. Add to the fact that, this very player also schooled him in a major occasion only a few weeks ago and perhaps a bit jaded after the long yet successful summer, so you can say that Raonic was more motivated for all those reasons than Andy. In other words,  while the conditions and the situations were ideal for Raonic, it wasn't the same deal for Andy. That's how I see it.

As to give it a different perspective, I'd say this loss will motivate Andy, wake him up and make him feel hungry again and from time to time, you need that kind of kick. More importantly, the year is not over yet and there some really great and big tournaments are coming up (Shanghai, Paris and WTF), so for me, it's a right kick at the right time. A loss, in fact, brings more changes and improvement than a win and those, without a doubt, are great things. Andy's got a good head on his shoulder and so he'll use it to his advantage going forward.

As to Lendl, I really believe he lets Andy to be and doesn't like interfering too much as far as Andy's on court personality is concerned. Lendl himself was the most hated champion in his time and that's for a reason, so I don't think he's particularly concerned about Andy's on court demeanor. Also, Andy has no reason to be like J. Mac. He is his own man and he handles the situation in his own way and that's what makes him unique. If you are a fan of Andy then it's best to accept the person he is both on and off court. You are not inside his head so you don't know how it helps him in different situations. He's not like this only when he loses but also when he wins, especially when he struggles a bit or may be a lot, so you simply don't know whether it helps him or not.

Moving on, we have some great tournaments coming up and Andy needs to focus on those and put this loss behind him. This loss is in the past already. Andy had a great yet long summer, and he has so many great things and moments to reflect on, so I am not going to expect too much from him. Anything is a bonus at this point for me and should be for Andy and his fans as well.
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #569 on: October 06, 2012, 03:44 PM »
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That is the spirit man!!
You cheered me up a bit Caz...thank you.
You're welcome sweetie!  Very Happy
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