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Poll
Question: Murray vs Raonic: Predictions
Murray in 2 - 11 (36.7%)
Murray in 3 - 17 (56.7%)
Raonic in 2 - 0 (0%)
Raonic in 3 - 2 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 30

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Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct

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xxdanixx
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #570 on: October 06, 2012, 03:45 PM »
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Oh dear-I didn't get to see the match,and just had the chance now to read the comments.Sounds like it was a bit of a tough one for Andy & us fans!

I can't possibly say one way or another about the back thing,as I didn't see the match,but I have to say,I'd be surprised if he wasn't feeling some sort of physical effects after the summer he's just had-and weren't those injections supposed to wear off around now?They certainly weren't supposed to last much longer than this,from what I can remember.

But look,back problems or no,everyone has a "bad day at the office" every now and then,no matter who they are,what they do,or how good they are at what they do.Andy's "office" might be on a much more global stage than most,and he is certainly brilliant at what he does.But the man is human!

He's had an incredible few months,and he's played some truly phenomenal tennis-breaking several british records in doing so.Let's not get too hung up on today-Andy played well,just not quite well enough at some points.Let's just hope that he'll be back on form again soon.

Couldn't agree more with you Caz-I'm dying for the WTF,and I'm really hoping Andy will shine there. pray
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #571 on: October 06, 2012, 03:49 PM »
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I honestly couldn't care less about the Asian Swing tbh.    Who cares if he drops to number 4 in the world.   Do you see Nadal anywhere search  exactly.  The real aim is to be fit for WTF  and have a right go at the AO - this may be thinking too far ahead, but you see my friends  Andy isn't the Andy we used to know-  He doesn't win M1000/500 tournaments that often anymore -  He is more focused on the big one's.    This is the Andy we have been waiting for.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #572 on: October 06, 2012, 03:51 PM »
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Sorry I don't agree with the last bit at all. Andy didn't just get lucky a few times, he tore him apart. It wasn't luck getting the returns back, it was his anticipation, which is why he's the greatest hard-court returner in the open era. He was reading the serve, he was getting into the rallies, and he was destroying the young Canadian lad in 90% of the rallies, passing him with ease every time he came into the net.

The apology was for a couple of 'lucky shots' - not for being able to read his return.

I agree with the first part of your post and when they are on song there is little anyone, even Murray or Djokovic, can do. That's why it's important to hold on to your own serve, and that's where Andy let himself down. Awful start, then lost his concentration a break up in the 3rd. That's unacceptable and can't simply be blamed on a big server.

Tie-breaks can be unpredictable but it's not like it's not in Andy's hands. If he loses it, it's because Raonic won at least a point on his serve - again that's nothing to do with him being a big server.

That's not a criticism at Andy, just that Raonic's serve being on song doesn't automatically win the match, he still has to outplay Andy as well on his own serve. Which he did.

Now a close three set final set tie-break defeat to Raonic is nothing to be ashamed about. But the manner of the defeat is the thing that worries me. The frustration, the racquet breaking, the tantrums, chucking away a 4-2 lead, squandered two match points.

Now Shanghai will be interesting to see how Andy responds to this.

I absolutely agree with that. I am not sure why Philip would say a thing like that. Andy said sorry not because he was "lucky" to guess those but because Raonic was expecting a far more competitive match, but Andy didn't allow him to do what Raonic is known for and he simply felt sorry for Raonic. If anything, it was very, very kind and sweet to say sorry to Raonic. Sampras was very kind to Roddick when he schooled him at the US Open in 2002. A great and true champion would always be kind to newcomers and rising stars. It's a long and grueling path to success and no one knows it better than those who are at the top.
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #573 on: October 06, 2012, 03:53 PM »
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Sorry I don't agree with the last bit at all. Andy didn't just get lucky a few times, he tore him apart. It wasn't luck getting the returns back, it was his anticipation, which is why he's the greatest hard-court returner in the open era. He was reading the serve, he was getting into the rallies, and he was destroying the young Canadian lad in 90% of the rallies, passing him with ease every time he came into the net.

The apology was for a couple of 'lucky shots' - not for being able to read his return.

I agree with the first part of your post and when they are on song there is little anyone, even Murray or Djokovic, can do. That's why it's important to hold on to your own serve, and that's where Andy let himself down. Awful start, then lost his concentration a break up in the 3rd. That's unacceptable and can't simply be blamed on a big server.

Tie-breaks can be unpredictable but it's not like it's not in Andy's hands. If he loses it, it's because Raonic won at least a point on his serve - again that's nothing to do with him being a big server.

That's not a criticism at Andy, just that Raonic's serve being on song doesn't automatically win the match, he still has to outplay Andy as well on his own serve. Which he did.

Now a close three set final set tie-break defeat to Raonic is nothing to be ashamed about. But the manner of the defeat is the thing that worries me. The frustration, the racquet breaking, the tantrums, chucking away a 4-2 lead, squandered two match points.

Now Shanghai will be interesting to see how Andy responds to this.


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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #574 on: October 06, 2012, 04:12 PM »
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Why are so many people on MW messengers of DOOM lets face it Andy has had a very good period winning the Gold Medal at the Olympics and the US Open. He must be a bit tired with all the games he has played and the travelling. I do hope that his back is okay the main thing is for him to be fit for Paris and the WTF. He has had a very good summer and we should all be happy with his success. So all you doubters give him a break and lighten up.
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #575 on: October 06, 2012, 04:15 PM »
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You 'get' that im a big Raonic fan?...eh?...no im not..never said that...so your perception needs a wee re-adjusting ...i simply beleive that out of the 'big' serving players he is the best of them. That style of play rarely wins anything in tennis.... and is dismantled every time by any player who has a complete game and is focused on the match at hand. Raonic has a better forehand than Isner and has a bit more variety..... thats not enough to beat the top guys...Isner is not a top player ...and frankly id laugh if you suggested he was.

And frankly, you didn't make much sense in that post because the argument is clearly not about whether Isner is a top player or not, but if he's more complete than Raonic. In any case, I am convinced while you have seen a lot of Raonic, you haven't seen much of Isner. Their last match just this year in Toronto speaks volume and will tell you who had more game on that day than whom. Raonic has a big serve true but you can't possibly say that he's got a big forehand as well. He does but it's not at all effective if he can't follow it up with a nice serve. It's especially useless when you put him out of his comfort zone or when you put him in a very defensive position. He needs perfect timing and perfect positioning to pull that shot off. So while it's lethal and big, it's also extremely dependent on a few other things. In other words, he must dictate the point in order to hit a great forehand. So it's only his server that's his big weapon and doesn't tend to rely on anything else other than mental pressure. The top players are perfectly capable of pulling off their forehand even when they are in a very vulnerable position or on a dead run etc. Sampras was especially good with his running forehand when he was completely out of position ...something I doubt Ranoic will ever pull it off, maybe occasionally, but certainly not most times and that's because he's a terrible mover. Isner is a far better mover than Raonic and that's another thing to take into account. Isner can also bend easily whereas Raonic looks rather clumsy at the net.
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #576 on: October 06, 2012, 05:04 PM »
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I didn't see the match live but from what I've read it sounds like Milos played very well while Andy had a few dips and didn't play the big points well. I can't say I'm bothered about this loss though - Andy won the most important meeting between them this year and I dare say he will in future slam meetings too. I think to beat Milos, Andy has to be fully focused throughout the match and be close to top form himself. He wasn't today (understandable given it's his first tournament back) but hopefully he'll go on to have a good run in Shanghai now.
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #577 on: October 06, 2012, 05:11 PM »
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And frankly, you didn't make much sense in that post because the argument is clearly not about whether Isner is a top player or not, but if he's more complete than Raonic. In any case, I am convinced while you have seen a lot of Raonic, you haven't seen much of Isner. Their last match just this year in Toronto speaks volume and will tell you who had more game on that day than whom. Raonic has a big serve true but you can't possibly say that he's got a big forehand as well. He does but it's not at all effective if he can't follow it up with a nice serve. It's especially useless when you put him out of his comfort zone or when you put him in a very defensive position. He needs perfect timing and perfect positioning to pull that shot off. So while it's lethal and big, it's also extremely dependent on a few other things. In other words, he must dictate the point in order to hit a great forehand. So it's only his server that's his big weapon and doesn't tend to rely on anything else other than mental pressure. The top players are perfectly capable of pulling off their forehand even when they are in a very vulnerable position or on a dead run etc. Sampras was especially good with his running forehand when he was completely out of position ...something I doubt Ranoic will ever pull it off, maybe occasionally, but certainly not most times and that's because he's a terrible mover. Isner is a far better mover than Raonic and that's another thing to take into account. Isner can also bend easily whereas Raonic looks rather clumsy at the net.

Totally disagree.... moving on then... lol
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #578 on: October 06, 2012, 05:25 PM »
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Another thing I meant to say about Andy's match last night was that, Andy needs to stay really and highly focused against a big server like Ranoic and given the  the Match started at noon, it put even more pressure on Andy to stay focused. Look how quickly he lost his first game in the first set and at love. And then faced a break-point again in the next game. And no matter how great a returner you are, against a big server like Isner or Raonic or Karlovic, you just can't afford to lose a game, because that also means loss of a set as well. Had they put Andy in a later time-slot, let's say even a 3pm start would have helped Andy focused a bit more. That is, though, strictly Andy's problem. He needs to learn to focus from the get go. In a professional individual sport like tennis where you are completely on your own, there's simply no way no how.

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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #579 on: October 06, 2012, 05:28 PM »
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jeeez some folks are over analysing Andy's loss to Raonic. Andy didnt bring his best tennis.... Raonic did.. hence he won. Its a diddy tournament... its prep for Shanghai.
Its not a coming of age of Raonic..... Andy played a few levels below what he is capable of yet still shoud have won the match. Hit the net many times when it looked easier to win the point.
If he was gonna lose, thats the tournament to lose.... not the biggies.

I'm actually less concerned about the challenge of Raonic after that match ...than I was before it.
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #580 on: October 06, 2012, 05:32 PM »
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Totally disagree.... moving on then... lol

This will also sound funny to you (lol) but Raonic also doesn't have a plan B game in his one dimensional game. Sampras is his idol I get it but Sampras was also a great mover and used to move like a jungle cat. In fact, Raonic's height will always get in his way as it poses more obstacles than the other way. In order for him to see a long success, he will always have to rely on his serve alone as he won't be able to rely much on anything else. There are no tall players in history who's won more than 1 or 2 Slams in total I will remind you (lol), so no matter how much potential he has, he will have to work really very hard and improve his game constantly to see some success and I am being kind. lol
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #581 on: October 06, 2012, 05:52 PM »
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This will also sound funny to you (lol) but Raonic also doesn't have a plan B game in his one dimensional game. Sampras is his idol I get it but Sampras was also a great mover and used to move like a jungle cat. In fact, Raonic's height will always get in his way as it poses more obstacles than the other way. In order for him to see a long success, he will always have to rely on his serve alone as he won't be able to rely much on anything else. There are no tall players in history who's won more than 1 or 2 Slams in total I will remind you (lol), so no matter how much potential he has, he will have to work really very hard and improve his game constantly to see some success and I am being kind. lol

What does any of that have to do with a comparison of the two big serving players Isner & Raonic? Which is what I was comparing, if you recall. I have also already stated my opinion that neither Isner or Raonic currently have a complete game to be able to win a major tournament. Isner is 27Yrs Raonic is 21Yrs ....who has more chance of improving his game? IMO Raonic is currently a better player than Isner (Results and performances are beginning to prove that) and also has more potential for improvement.....oh and lol...lol
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #582 on: October 06, 2012, 05:59 PM »
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What does any of that have to do with a comparison of the two big serving players Isner & Raonic? Which is what I was comparing, if you recall. I have also already stated my opinion that neither Isner or Raonic currently have a complete game to be able to win a major tournament. Isner is 27Yrs Raonic is 21Yrs ....who has more chance of improving his game? IMO Raonic is currently a better player than Isner (Results and performances are beginning to prove that) and also has more potential for improvement.....oh and lol...lol

Because you talked about Raonic's 'potential' when comparing both Raonic and Isner and you are still doing so. Potential is something that has yet to happen but likely to happen and I am saying given Raonic's height, I don't see as much potential in him to begin with, as it will almost always stand his way just like it did in Isner's case and many others in the past and present.
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #583 on: October 06, 2012, 06:03 PM »
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gutted andy lost  but as we all know we have to take the matches for what they are some he is going win and some he will lose ,he lost to a better player on the day andnext time andy will be ready and more aware that he needs to up his game to win against.ranoic
 andy what a great year you have had   im so proud of you wether you win or lose.you have shown guts and detemination all this year
,keep that fire in your belly to be the player we all love but most of all for yourself
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #584 on: October 06, 2012, 06:16 PM »
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I suppose Nishikori will win this title now and that will be superb for him.
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