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Poll
Question: Murray vs Raonic: Predictions
Murray in 2 - 11 (36.7%)
Murray in 3 - 17 (56.7%)
Raonic in 2 - 0 (0%)
Raonic in 3 - 2 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 30

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Author Topic: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct  (Read 8028 times)
Emma Jean
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #645 on: October 07, 2012, 03:55 PM »
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Anyway, I'm delighted Kei won as he's probably my favourite player after Andy. I didn't see the match but surely something must have been wrong with Raonic though in the final set to get bagelled? Some back problem or just fatigue, because if his serve was firing there's no way he'd lose a set 0-6. Taking nothing away from Nishikori, I'm sure he was excellent, but even excellent is very difficult to break Raonic when he's on form.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Raonic had nothing left in the tank after the 2nd set? Why go with something that's the least possible scenario? Anyway, Isner has the same problem. The big guys with big serves don't have the stamina to play one too many competitive matches in a row and its often their serves that take the first beating. An accurate serve requires high mental concentration but when you are both mentally and physically exhausted, you are unable to hit that perfect first serve and that's why a 5 set match gives much more advantage to the player, who does not rely on his serve this much and someone who has the stamina and endurance to last longer. Raonic has none.

When Sampras came into the big picture, it'd been said time and again that he wouldn't last a longer match (mostly due to his blood disorder though he was a terrific mover and extremely flexible at the net), but he adjusted the conditions quite well as he moved along and wouldn't spend much time extending the rallies  unnecessary to save energies just in case. But same can't be said about Raonic as he'll protect his own games alright but if anyone pushes him further, he'll be out of breath quite easily, as he doesn't have the tendency to come to the net as often and also, unless he gets a chance to execute his forehand, he doesn't know how to shortened a point. I guess what I am saying is that, I see no improvement on his part unlike his idol and it's unlikely that he will improve all that much as he doesn't strike me very smart.
[ Last edit by Emma Jean October 07, 2012, 04:13 PM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #646 on: October 07, 2012, 04:10 PM »
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Just read an article in today's Sunday Times. It refers to an interview with and quote from Raonic after his match with Andy.

Raonic said: "most of the time at the US Open,l I played under Murray's terms. This time I was determined to play on mine." The second sentence of this quote is precisely the comment Raonic made prior to his defeat by Andy. It is obvious that this young man has a lot to learn from AM in the realms of humility and to submerge his continuing arrogance.

In view of the result in his match with KN he really got his comeupance.

Raonic is getting so bigger than his boots lately. First of all, he has yet to achieve anything big to have anything on "his term". Go and win any Slam at 19 beating some of the legends and then talk that sorts of rubbish - I'll understand.

Second, if you are talking "terms" then you should know, of all people since you brought it up, what exactly it means first. I don't think he's got the faintest clue  just babbling out of his thick head - really sorry to say this.

The unfortunate part in all this is that, Andy can't take Raonic all that seriously and make it all that personal, so he'll have to give a couple of matches away to him at times when it's not heavily required, otherwise I would have liked him to put Raonic in his firm place where he belongs once and for all.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #647 on: October 07, 2012, 04:20 PM »
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Oh btw, awesome win for Kei! Smile  yay

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Littlebuddha
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #648 on: October 07, 2012, 04:31 PM »
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Hope so too BBH there must be a lot of strain on the back and I thought he looked a bit uncomfortable during the match with Raonic. It seem that the demands on the body catch up with tennis players. Hope Andy has a couple of days to rest after Tokyo.
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #649 on: October 07, 2012, 06:03 PM »
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Wow, exaggeration much?

It was about 50/50, and even those who thought Raonic was favourite (myself included) never said it was a dead certainty. Christ.

How was I exaggerating? Most people were backing Raonic to win but I backed Nish. It wasn't close to 50/50 he destroyed him in the 3rd set, did you actually watch any of the matches Kei played? He was right in the zone at the final and SF he could have given anybody a run for their money playing like that.

50/50 I was referring to those favouring Nishikori or Raonic.

Yes, you were exaggerating. As I said, it was about 50/50 as to who thought who would win, and not one person were 'certain' it would be Raonic. Personally I thought it would be close but I thought Raonic would have to be favourite because of each players' respective form and Raonic's run to the final. That's not to say I thought he would win.

Well I think Andy would have lost given the way both had been playing, but we can't possibly know that. I also haven't said anything about his raking position, that seems rather irrelevant to anything.

Of course the ranking is relevant. Nishikori has been the 20th (roughly) best player this year. That means 19 players have been better than him. Winning one tournament doesn't suddenly make him Slam matierial. Certainly not the very next Slam. It seems a bit ignorant to just ignore the rankings; they are a great indicator of where a player is at.

Of course he's going to be a very long shot to win a slam, but 1000 to 1 is very long odds. But it turned out I was a bit pre-emptive there at his odds just hadn't been updated yet since they were shortened to 200 to 1 shortly after which is a lot more fitting.
The odds may look great but they could be 100/1 or 1,000,000/1 and he would still have the same chance of winning - next to nil. Forget the bookies, let's look at it realistically - it would mean that all of the big four would have be knocked out, it would mean that Nishikori would also have to get further than Berdych, Tsonga, Ferrer, Del Potro, Isner, Gasquet, Cilic, Monaco, etc.

Anyway I was mainly referring to this line: "if he plays like he did this tourny he could win a slam" when I said "let's not get ahead of ourselves." First of all this is over three sets. Secondly he didn't face a single top player. Even if he played like he did this tournament, in a Slam he would most likely have to play against Murray, Djokovic, Federer or Nadal (possible 2-3 in order to win) who would be near a high level themselves, and let's be honest, they are better than Nishikori. Then you have to factor in fitness and consistency, which based on this season, is clearly lacking.

Yes, I did read the next line, which is quite contradictory I must say. Maybe he will win a Slam one day, but you were implying at the AO or next year. It would be strange to say, "if he plays like he did this tourny" and be referring a couple of years down the line.
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #650 on: October 07, 2012, 06:04 PM »
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Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Raonic had nothing left in the tank after the 2nd set? Why go with something that's the least possible scenario? Anyway, Isner has the same problem. The big guys with big serves don't have the stamina to play one too many competitive matches in a row and its often their serves that take the first beating. An accurate serve requires high mental concentration but when you are both mentally and physically exhausted, you are unable to hit that perfect first serve and that's why a 5 set match gives much more advantage to the player, who does not rely on his serve this much and someone who has the stamina and endurance to last longer. Raonic has none.

When Sampras came into the big picture, it'd been said time and again that he wouldn't last a longer match (mostly due to his blood disorder though he was a terrific mover and extremely flexible at the net), but he adjusted the conditions quite well as he moved along and wouldn't spend much time extending the rallies  unnecessary to save energies just in case. But same can't be said about Raonic as he'll protect his own games alright but if anyone pushes him further, he'll be out of breath quite easily, as he doesn't have the tendency to come to the net as often and also, unless he gets a chance to execute his forehand, he doesn't know how to shortened a point. I guess what I am saying is that, I see no improvement on his part unlike his idol and it's unlikely that he will improve all that much as he doesn't strike me very smart.
So fatigue then, as I said?
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TheMadHatter
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #651 on: October 07, 2012, 06:06 PM »
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that's just being greedy lol  Very Happy
Think about it logically though. Reaching #1 and winning multiple slams are correlated. Chances are if he wins a couple of Slams in a season he'll be in or around #1 in the world. To get to #1 he'd certainly have to win more slams anyway. So ye, I'd love to see Murray #1 in the world at some point, but obviously I'd love him to win more Slams as well and to get one he'd have to do the other anyway.
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backhandslice
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #652 on: October 07, 2012, 06:20 PM »
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Think about it logically though. Reaching #1 and winning multiple slams are correlated. Chances are if he wins a couple of Slams in a season he'll be in or around #1 in the world. To get to #1 he'd certainly have to win more slams anyway. So ye, I'd love to see Murray #1 in the world at some point, but obviously I'd love him to win more Slams as well and to get one he'd have to do the other anyway.

good point actually.    I'm just scared at how Andy will handle the pressure and the obvious critisisim   if he becomes number 1.  Well he has proved everyone wrong time and time again ,especially with that Grand slam win,  so I think he can prove them wrong again Very Happy  I'm just worried about Andy and how he will react to it that's all,  I always think  Andy as the humble mis-undertood guy, who always tries his best and deserves so much more.  
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michelle
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #653 on: October 07, 2012, 06:31 PM »
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good point actually.    I'm just scared at how Andy will handle the pressure and the obvious critisisim   if he becomes number 1.  Well he has proved everyone wrong time and time again ,especially with that Grand slam win,  so I think he can prove them wrong again Very Happy  I'm just worried about Andy and how he will react to it that's all,  I always think  Andy as the humble mis-undertood guy, who always tries his best and deserves so much more. 
Andy will and does handle pressure. He knows what he wants to achieve and he will work hard to reach his goals. He is very much his own person and with his family, team and friends around him they are his bedrock, and of course Maggie May and Rusty are part of this important group.
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tamila
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #654 on: October 07, 2012, 06:40 PM »
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There is something I haven't said is that both these players are in their twenties and Andy was already in the top 6 by this age and a clutch of titles under his belt.
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BigNose
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #655 on: October 07, 2012, 06:52 PM »
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Moving on to Andy's back. This is a worrying senario. It appears he is having a corteson injections before every important match, which could eventually lead to a permanent deterioration in his bone structure. It would therefore end Andy's tennis superb career sooner than he would wish.

I think your brain needs a cortisone injection.
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #656 on: October 07, 2012, 06:54 PM »
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@OSS
I thought he'd had injections prior to Wimbledon and Ruthie said that he hoped they'd last for 3 months, which would be about right.
Don't think he's having them on a regular basis.
Hope not any way. Frown

I am deeply concerned for Andy on his constant needs for injections. The difficulty is that the more often he has them, the more he will start to require them. It then becomes a habit and he might lose control of his body.
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ProdigyEng
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #657 on: October 07, 2012, 06:56 PM »
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I'm sure the team behind Andy will know what they're doing and will have it all under control. He's probably seen medics about it and I'm sure a solution will come about. Tbh I'm sure even the best of players have had potential career threatening, or constant niggling injuries (that they could play through), which we'll never know about unless they reveal it themselves..
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BigNose
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #658 on: October 07, 2012, 06:56 PM »
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Talk about big-headed. Raonic has an ego the size of Edinburgh. Im over the moon that Kei beat him. Funny thing is Andy has demolished Kei every time he has played him. He's a kind of Murray-lite.
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ABF
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Re: Tokyo 2012 SF: Murray vs Raonic - Sat 06 Oct « Reply #659 on: October 07, 2012, 08:13 PM »
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I'm sure the team behind Andy will know what they're doing and will have it all under control. He's probably seen medics about it and I'm sure a solution will come about. Tbh I'm sure even the best of players have had potential career threatening, or constant niggling injuries (that they could play through), which we'll never know about unless they reveal it themselves..

Yeah... all the top players have some problems physically.... its a fact of life at the top of tennis... they are more successful which equates to more matches played than the rest of the players and hence more demands physically.... alot of top sportspeople use injections to get them thru their respective seasons.
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