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WTF SF: Murray vs Federer

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Caz
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1290 on: November 14, 2012, 09:32 PM »
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'All' gamesmanship is cheating! Andy 'never' stoops to this! The fact that Novak is his friend makes it worse......in my view anyway! I like Novak well enough, but I have no 'respect' for cheats!
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teejay1
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1291 on: November 14, 2012, 11:47 PM »
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The other thing about Djokovic that I meant to say before is that I appreciated his reaction to Andy when the USO final was done. The embrace he exchanged with Andy (would hug be a better word?) seemed genuine. I think that is honestly to his credit, after such a long, demanding match, both physically, mentally and, I'm sure, emotionally, for the pair of them. I also didn't realise until I watched the match again on DVD, how close to tears Djokovic was during his speech that night. I think he dealt with it as well as Andy did at Wimbledon. Neither man ruined the moment for the winner. I think that is sporting behaviour, however you choose to look at it.
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*Sparkle*
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1292 on: November 15, 2012, 10:43 PM »
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I saw this post over on MTF in a discussion of the subject, and I thought it gave a bit of context to what happened.  The person posting is mainly a Federer fan, but from Burma living in the UK.

Quote
... as someone who was at the Murray/Berdych match and the Murray/Federer match, I fail to see why OP and other posters think that Murray's not well supported in the UK. I was absolutely terrified by the Murray support when I was at the first match; it came pretty close to the level of craziness that I experienced when I watched Lleyton Hewitt in Melbourne. The support for him wasn't as loud in the semi-final, but that's to be expected. Federer fans come from every part of the world. I sat next to an American/Canadian girl who was cheering for Roger and I went with a guy from Hong Kong who was also a Roger fan, and I'm from Singapore. The fact is, Federer's popularity transcends nationality. The crowd support for him in the SF, in my opinion, had little to do with whether or not Murray is well-liked in the UK.

Just an anecdotal story: I bought a ticket to Roger's match with del Potro from this English guy on eBay. At the match I asked him who his favourite player was. He didn't have a strong preference for anyone, but said that he liked watching Roger play because he's just so good (), but he wanted Murray to win the tournament because Murray is the local boy.

Bottom line is, you simply cannot gauge the level of home support for Murray when he plays Federer (or maybe even Nadal). I can't comment on the booing because I didn't know what was happening as I was too busy staring at Roger, but purely based on the crowd support for him at those two matches that I attended, I don't think he's widely hated or disliked in Britain at all. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite.

I hope this puts a few minds at rest that Andy isn't appreciated.  I'm not saying that Andy is appreciated as much as we think he should be, or that there aren't some idiots out there who hate for no good reason, but that's pretty much a fact of life for everyone in the public eye, and it's not worth getting too worked up about.   I can't see it being good for Andy either, if people want to labour the point.  Seeing articles about Andy being booed by his "home crowd" is just the sort of thing the haters like to see as it validates their views.  It's also bad if people in the wider media believe that's how the general public think, as it gives them the impression that Andy is someone they can pick on and get away with it.

As it happens, I think Andy's press has been good lately.   Andy's win at the US Open was the ideal opportunity for a lot of tennis and sports journalists to write meaty features all about how Andy has been misunderstood for far too long.  A bit of indigent writing now may be no bad thing, but I'd hate it to become a big issue that people harp on about all through the off-season.
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Iluvandy
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1293 on: November 15, 2012, 10:53 PM »
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All very interesting but I cannot give much credence to a report from someone who is "mainly a Federer fan" but "can't comment on the booing because I didn't know what was happening as I was too busy staring at Roger".   Maybe shouting "I love you Roger"?
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Elena
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1294 on: November 15, 2012, 11:14 PM »
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I saw this post over on MTF in a discussion of the subject, and I thought it gave a bit of context to what happened.  The person posting is mainly a Federer fan, but from Burma living in the UK....etc

Thank you Sparkle. I've tried in a few posts to put "home crowd" into context - London is so cosmopolitan, and also easily accessible from Europe and the wider world, and what I saw in two days at the O2 last week was very international. But some people just don't want to know. 
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xxdanixx
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1295 on: November 15, 2012, 11:23 PM »
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Thanks Sparkle,it's interesting to hear about it from that point of view.
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Iluvandy
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1296 on: November 15, 2012, 11:28 PM »
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Thank you Sparkle. I've tried in a few posts to put "home crowd" into context - London is so cosmopolitan, and also easily accessible from Europe and the wider world, and what I saw in two days at the O2 last week was very international. But some people just don't want to know. 

I think Paris is pretty cosmopolitan and accessible but I can't see the same thing happening there.   The defence of the Sunday night crowd is "they were mostly foreigners".    The bottom line is the Brits did not support their home player.    I'm not even saying they should but I am saying they didn't and there is no point in talking up the home advantage.   
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IonaRed
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1297 on: November 15, 2012, 11:40 PM »
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I think Paris is pretty cosmopolitan and accessible but I can't see the same thing happening there.   The defence of the Sunday night crowd is "they were mostly foreigners".    The bottom line is the Brits did not support their home player.    I'm not even saying they should but I am saying they didn't and there is no point in talking up the home advantage.  

I went to the French Open from 2006 to 2010.  My sister lived in Paris at the time.  Unfortunately I had the misfortune to see Federer EVERY single time. He had fantastic support at every match - even against French players. It's as though they root for Federer until they know he has the match in the bag and then they think 'hmmm better root for our French player now'. I won't pretend to understand it.  I do have to say that if the banners are anything to go by then Roger's fans are as arrogant as he is.

It takes a certain type of fan to not only boo a player but to boo him at his home tournament.  The sad thing is that any booing should have been drowned out by the supposed 'home' fans.
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*Sparkle*
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1298 on: November 16, 2012, 12:56 AM »
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All very interesting but I cannot give much credence to a report from someone who is "mainly a Federer fan" but "can't comment on the booing because I didn't know what was happening as I was too busy staring at Roger".   Maybe shouting "I love you Roger"?
I didn't post to suggest there wasn't booing, nor did that person claim otherwise.  I posted to show that someone who was at more than one of Andy's matches, they thought that Andy had a lot of home support, that there was a large international crowd, and that the difference in the Federer match was that there were a lot of Federer fans there.

One of the reasons the O2 has been so successful is because it's accessible for a lot of Europeans, and this has been said long before this particular drama, so you don't need to rely on the credibility of a Roger fan for that.  So what if they are a Roger fan?  There are definitely a few nasty ones, but that doesn't mean they are all liars.  I'd rather blame the fans who were nasty, not the ones concentrating on watching their favourite player.

It's not about defending the audience.  No-one has defended what happened.   It's just some people are describing a different experience to the one some have assumed to be universal across the entire arena.  Why blame an entire nation for something done by a handful of people, even if some were British?  It's not the first report to say they didn't notice booing, while others thought it obvious.  That doesn't mean that one person is lying, it just means that it wasn't the whole crowd, which is a good thing, unless you want Andy to be hated.

I don't get why people think that booing should be drowned out by home fans.  When Andy was booed unexpectedly for changing rackets - should home fans have cheered?  My reaction would have been along the lines of "oi, cut that out", which wouldn't have helped much.  What about during his service - would it have been easier for him to concentrate if home fans were cheering?   Booing is one of those things that travels, so 10% boos and 90% cheers and you'll still hear boos.

The people who behaved badly, behaved badly, and that was there responsibility, not anyone else's.
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The Gnome
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1299 on: November 16, 2012, 01:28 AM »
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Not sure what people expect from british crowds, i think crowds here are just very into the tennis, having watched that semi again, Andy was cheered just as much as Fed was on most occasions, yes he was booed but then in most matches around the world, when someone does something even remotely resembling petulance, then booing does occur.

Having watched a number of Andy's matches, there are so many things that effect a crowds reaction to a match, if you remember the Lopez match Andy had pretty much the majority of the crowd until Lopez was on the receiving end of a bad umpiring decision then all of a sudden they were cheering every shot Lopez made after that.

Nadal in the WTF 2010, the Wimbledon final, in fact every match where Andy loses on home soil is greeted with applause from a british audience because they enjoyed the fact they saw 2 of their idols playing a great match, not out of any disrespect for  the home player.

Now we here have a vested interest in who we support, and maybe we do not understand the crowd's reaction at the end of a match, that does not mean there was nobdy wanting Andy to win, but at Wimbledon when he lost to Fed does anybody really believe that what should have happened was that the people watching should have all started booing in disgust at Andy losing? Of course not, and the noise would most likely have been louder if Andy had won.

As this occured in London, although there is some truth in what has been said in the papers about possible respect due for a player who gave us a slam for the first time in 76 years and won 2 medals for team GB at the Olympics, never underestimate how the tabloid press in this country has a unique and historical reputation for blowing things way out of proportion to justify making a few sensationalist headlines.
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scotnadian
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1300 on: November 16, 2012, 03:08 AM »
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I'm not saying that Andy is appreciated as much as we think he should be, or that there aren't some idiots out there who hate for no good reason, but that's pretty much a fact of life for everyone in the public eye, and it's not worth getting too worked up about.   I can't see it being good for Andy either, if people want to labour the point...   but I'd hate it to become a big issue that people harp on about all through the off-season.

Whether we like it or not, the fact is: Federer has substantially more fans than Andy. They follow him religiously, and love to let him know they love him.
It doesn't help when a respected commie (Robbie Koenig) comments live on one of his shots that the last time he saw something like that, "God was a boy."
This is what the general Joe Public hears, so of course this is what the general Joe Public believes.
Monkey see... Monkey do.

I think it's great that Andy appears to be getting on with his life. He looked like he was genuinely engaged and enjoying himself with the kids at the Set4Sport event. And now he and Kim are having some extremely well-deserved down time. All good and healthy stuff.

Some posters here need to have the same attitude as Andy and move on. It's so yesterday.

But some people just don't want to know. 
I know.

..never underestimate how the tabloid press in this country has a unique and historical reputation for blowing things way out of proportion to justify making a few sensationalist headlines.
Good point.
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xxdanixx
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1301 on: November 16, 2012, 08:56 AM »
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I think it's great that Andy appears to be getting on with his life. He looked like he was genuinely engaged and enjoying himself with the kids at the Set4Sport event. And now he and Kim are having some extremely well-deserved down time. All good and healthy stuff.

Some posters here need to have the same attitude as Andy and move on. It's so yesterday.

Well said Scotnadian!
Look guys,when it happened,we were all upset by it-and rightfully so.Some of us-including myself-emailed in to Sky,because we were so upset by not only the way Andy had been treated but also by the way it was willfully ignored by Petch and co.

But it's over now.Andy's had a bit of a laugh with the kids,and is now miles away with Kim,and hopefully hasn't spared a thought for that crowd in days.Nobody here should give those idiots any satisfaction by expending any more energy on them,because quite frankly they're so far from being worthy of it!Yeah,being upset over it all was exactly right at the time.But now it's time to just try to think about something else.Instead of maybe thinking about the way some really stupid people caused the season to end,let's celebrate the amazing stuff Andy accomplished during the season,and be happy about it!Let's get excited about the prospects of what Andy will be aiming to do come '13.All good stuff!! Very Happy

And Scotnadian-really?"God was a boy?" That is just-I actually have no words for that!
[ Last edit by xxdanixx November 16, 2012, 09:02 AM ] IP Logged
Caz
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1302 on: November 16, 2012, 08:56 AM »
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The other thing about Djokovic that I meant to say before is that I appreciated his reaction to Andy when the USO final was done. The embrace he exchanged with Andy (would hug be a better word?) seemed genuine. I think that is honestly to his credit, after such a long, demanding match, both physically, mentally and, I'm sure, emotionally, for the pair of them. I also didn't realise until I watched the match again on DVD, how close to tears Djokovic was during his speech that night. I think he dealt with it as well as Andy did at Wimbledon. Neither man ruined the moment for the winner. I think that is sporting behaviour, however you choose to look at it.
I agree Teejay, but I don't think that excuses gamesmanship!
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Iluvandy
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1303 on: November 16, 2012, 03:06 PM »
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I will be very glad to see the back of this discussion but find it difficult to ignore posts defending the crowd on Sunday night, but I will in future for this is definitely my last word on it.    I think we can probably all remember the encouraging shouts of C'mon Tim when he needed a bit of support.   That was missing for Andy.    I don't
know the reason and neither does anyone else but I think Andy will be wise enough not to rely on "home support" in the future.    I'll refrain from finishing with a  
cliche such as "some people don't want to know" partly because that is a two way street and partly it borders on being snide and I don't like snide.
    
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Re: WTF SF: Murray vs Federer « Reply #1304 on: November 19, 2012, 01:32 PM »
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I have to say I found it really sad to see so many Swiss flags in a London venue. I wasn't surprised when a Scottish journalist tweeted that he felt he was in Basel.

Bearing in mind that a lot of tickets are bought in advance, I wonder how all the Fedtards would've reacted if they had to watch two semis WITHOUT  Federer.  Someone said to me that they noticed that there were more empty seats in the non-Fed matches.  Does that mean that Fed fans just don't bother showing up if he isn't playing?
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