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2011 Election Thread

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blueberryhill
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #225 on: May 10, 2011, 05:47 PM »
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You could try reading "Racism, Crime and Criminal Justice" by Ben Bowling and Corretta Phillips for a start.
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Mark
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #226 on: May 10, 2011, 05:49 PM »
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Do you believe the scientists behind these studies have hidden agendas and therefore are trying to distort the results?
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blueberryhill
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #227 on: May 10, 2011, 06:11 PM »
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And for IQ and Race, "The Bell Curve" by Jensen and Shockley which did not find any significant correlation between race and IQ.

Of course all scientists have agendas. When you look at any research there are important questions you have to ask about it. For a start the question you ask can get you the answer you want, depends how you phrase it.
I would be very sceptical indeed about any research that makes claims about IQ and race, crime and race etc. There are too many variables floating around.  If you look at it historically outrageous claims have been made on the most flimsy of evidence. 
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Mark
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #228 on: May 10, 2011, 06:14 PM »
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I have no idea about the IQ aspect but I am inclined to believe in the crime stats but not make a moral judgement because I understand you need to consider things like poverty etc.
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tennis_girl
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #229 on: May 10, 2011, 06:38 PM »
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Again, crime stats can be biased. If a cop is constantly going after blacks because of prejudice, yeah, he's going to catch more blacks doing criminal things. That doesn't mean that whites aren't committing crimes, just that less are caught.
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Mark
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #230 on: May 10, 2011, 06:41 PM »
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I don't deny that, still inclined to believe it as it makes sense people from deprived upbringings are more likely to commit crime.
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Yamor
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #231 on: May 10, 2011, 06:57 PM »
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Why couldn't there be a difference between races or sexes in average IQ? Not saying there is, but why couldn't there be?

And saying someone is racist for saying there is a difference is like saying I'm racist for saying blacks have a different skin colour to whites.
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Joe
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #232 on: May 10, 2011, 07:00 PM »
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Why couldn't there be a difference between races or sexes in average IQ? Not saying there is, but why couldn't there be?

And saying someone is racist for saying there is a difference is like saying I'm racist for saying blacks have a different skin colour to whites.

I see what you're saying - the word does get bandied about far too much these days.

However, I'd like to see what they based their selection criteria on and just how big their sample size was.
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Mark
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #233 on: May 10, 2011, 07:01 PM »
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Why couldn't there be a difference between races or sexes in average IQ? Not saying there is, but why couldn't there be?
Indeed.
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Caz
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #234 on: May 10, 2011, 07:07 PM »
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Why couldn't there be a difference between races or sexes in average IQ? Not saying there is, but why couldn't there be?

And saying someone is racist for saying there is a difference is like saying I'm racist for saying blacks have a different skin colour to whites.
I don't recall anyone being called racist! Did I miss that?
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Mark
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #235 on: May 10, 2011, 07:12 PM »
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I'd say blueberryhill wasn't that far off with her "CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT" type remarks.
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Clydey
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #236 on: May 10, 2011, 07:37 PM »
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WHAT!!! I can't believe you wrote that shocking
This just shows that institutional racism is alive and well everywhere and dodgy research can be used to justify discrimination and prejudice ad nauseam.
In the last century there were many studies that said women were less intelligent than men!

Why are you getting upset? No one is suggesting that black people should be treated any different. They are simply reporting on research. There are differences between white and black people. Black people are naturally superior athletes, so I'm not going to discount the possibility that there are other differences.
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Caz
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #237 on: May 10, 2011, 07:39 PM »
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I'd say blueberryhill wasn't that far off with her "CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT" type remarks.
Well, I can't speak for BBH, but the first thing that went through my mind was exactly that! 'I can't believe he said that!' but, only from the point of view of the people who may be upset! I know Nigel isn't racist! Maybe BBH meant it as I would have, had I said it!......I don't know......maybe she'll tell us!
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blueberryhill
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #238 on: May 10, 2011, 07:41 PM »
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I did find that remark quite shocking, as a matter of fact. This idea was de-bunked when I was at uni many years ago. Time and again IQ tests have been shown to be highly biased towards a certain kind of intelligence and surprise, surprise white males do really well. Could this be because IQ tests are constructed and set by white males?
Tennis-girl and Joe make valid points too.
 People are far too accepting of so-called facts and use them to prop up their own particular prejudices. But there again, the education system hardly encourages independent thought. Heaven forbid we should have a free thinking population that challenges perceived wisdom.
Rant over Shrug
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Clydey
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Re: 2011 Election Thread « Reply #239 on: May 10, 2011, 07:42 PM »
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And for IQ and Race, "The Bell Curve" by Jensen and Shockley which did not find any significant correlation between race and IQ.

Of course all scientists have agendas. When you look at any research there are important questions you have to ask about it. For a start the question you ask can get you the answer you want, depends how you phrase it.
I would be very sceptical indeed about any research that makes claims about IQ and race, crime and race etc. There are too many variables floating around.  If you look at it historically outrageous claims have been made on the most flimsy of evidence. 

This sort of attitude is a barrier to investigation. Why the outrage at the mere suggestion there may be some difference?

Are you offended when someone says that black people arre naturally more gifted athletes or is it only white guilt that gets you worked up when people discuss race?
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