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Author Topic: Benefits and financial support  (Read 8086 times)
Ruthie
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #45 on: October 07, 2010, 08:26 AM »
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My understanding of the history of Child Benefit was that it was paid, post war, to encourage people to have children to help shore up the depleted population.  As this is no longer a requirement, Child Benefit should be scrapped, IMO, thereby saving £6.7 billion.
Family allowances were introduced for a number of reasons and remember that child benefit replaced child tax allowances as well as family allowances at the end of the 1970s so in effect represent a tax break in recognition of costs of raising children.  I don't have children but am happy to contribute towards the costs of them because they represent our future.  Cameron talks about those with the broadest shoulders making the sacrifice but doesn't explain why it should be just those with children ie it would be fairer to make all higher rate taxpayers pay more.  And it doesn't sit well with their claims to be the most family friendly govt ever.
There is also cross-national evidence that countries with the strongest universal child benefit systems are most successful at minimising child poverty.
Sorry - this is a bit of a hobby horse as I've spent all my adult life campaigning on these issues so am dismayed by what is now happening. We saved child benefit in the Thatcher years and now it looks like it's going down the plug hole.
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colin
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #46 on: October 07, 2010, 09:27 AM »
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Thanks Ruthie for writing sense.

I was distracted for a moment by IonaRed's contribution before realising that it was a troll. I cannot think that anyone can seriously believe that couples have children so that they can use the child allowance to acquire a big house, two cars, fancy holidays, plasma TVs and designer clothes. If they do they are in for a shock.
[ Last edit by colin October 07, 2010, 09:33 AM ] IP Logged
janscribe
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #47 on: October 07, 2010, 09:45 AM »
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Judgemental much Rolling Eyes
Yeah well accidents happen and they'll find a way to manage (though father isn't getting a choice about a snip after this one lol his wife said). The kids are a good bunch and their gran is always ready to pitch in a lend an extra hand.


Jan your daughter is lucky yo have you two hug Not that my parents aren't great Smile they've always tried to help me as much as possible and so glad that their willing to put up with me for now till I find my feet.
Most parents would do what yours have done - I shouldn't think you are too hard to put up with! Emma can come home whenever she chooses and she did let us help last year when she desperately needed another car (she needs it for work) - we were happy to do that.
My understanding of the history of Child Benefit was that it was paid, post war, to encourage people to have children to help shore up the depleted population.  As this is no longer a requirement, Child Benefit should be scrapped, IMO, thereby saving £6.7 billion.
Oh Daisy that's a sweeping comment! I feel child benefit should be given to those who really need it - after all, life and circumstances change and some who are swinging along quite happily with 2/3 children on a decent job can suddenly be made redundant etc - then they should have some help until they get on their feet again - that is one incident where child benefit must remain.
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Daisy
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #48 on: October 07, 2010, 09:51 AM »
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Oh Daisy that's a sweeping comment! I feel child benefit should be given to those who really need it

Quite so Jan ... that is a different matter to handing it out willy nilly to all and sundry.
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janscribe
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #49 on: October 07, 2010, 09:59 AM »
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Quite so Jan ... that is a different matter to handing it out willy nilly to all and sundry.
  I was, probably wrongly, under the impression that the changes in child benefit would mean that some middle class and above i.e. more affluent people - would not receive it but I'm really not too abreast of the proposals at the moment - lot of catching up to do!
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Daisy
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #50 on: October 07, 2010, 10:07 AM »
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  I was, probably wrongly, under the impression that the changes in child benefit would mean that some middle class and above i.e. more affluent people - would not receive it but I'm really not too abreast of the proposals at the moment - lot of catching up to do!

As the UK is regarded as a Welfare State there will always be safety nets in place.  However, as Child Benefit was initially conceived, in part, to encourage people to have children to help shore up the depleted population after the war, and as this is no longer a requirement, it should surely now be regarded as a "safety net" rather than as a given.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #51 on: October 07, 2010, 10:12 AM »
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I have four kids, but am totally opposed to child benefit. Nobody should be GIVEN anything. You should work for it.
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Clydey
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #52 on: October 07, 2010, 10:18 AM »
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I have four kids, but am totally opposed to child benefit. Nobody should be GIVEN anything. You should work for it.

What about people who can't work?
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #53 on: October 07, 2010, 10:29 AM »
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Very, very few people can't work. Almost everyone can do SOME kind of work. They just don't want to.
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Clydey
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #54 on: October 07, 2010, 10:48 AM »
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Very, very few people can't work. Almost everyone can do SOME kind of work. They just don't want to.

That isn't true. You simply have no idea what you're talking about, since you have absolutely no firsthand experience.
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #55 on: October 07, 2010, 10:53 AM »
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That isn't true. You simply have no idea what you're talking about, since you have absolutely no firsthand experience.

Do you KNOW how many people are on incapacity benefit in this country? What proportion of those do you think are genuine cases? You're telling me that the ones with 'bad backs' (for which ailment, by the way, their GP gets a £50 fee for signing them off), can't stuff envelopes or answer a phone?
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Clydey
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #56 on: October 07, 2010, 11:00 AM »
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Do you KNOW how many people are on incapacity benefit in this country? What proportion of those do you think are genuine cases? You're telling me that the ones with 'bad backs' (for which ailment, by the way, their GP gets a £50 fee for signing them off), can't stuff envelopes or answer a phone?

It isn't solely about whether they can do the job. It's about reliability and actually being able to make it into work everyday.

Have you ever dealt with the system? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get Atos to state that you're not fit for work?

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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #57 on: October 07, 2010, 11:03 AM »
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Can't be that hard, since around 3 million claim incapacity at a cost to the taxpayer of around £14 billion a year.
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #58 on: October 07, 2010, 11:07 AM »
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And if they really, really wanted to get to work - to struggle into work, even at physical cost to themselves, because that's what people had to do before the advent of incapacity and similar benefits - they would do.

I suspect your response will be along the lines of 'why should they have to?', since you're a Labour voter.
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Clydey
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #59 on: October 07, 2010, 11:08 AM »
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Can't be that hard, since around 3 million claim incapacity at a cost to the taxpayer of around £14 billion a year.

It is incredibly difficult. In fact, they have been the subject of an exposé  for the fact that their system turns down so many genuine cases.

You really are coming from a position of complete ignorance. You have never dealt with the system, nor do you know the first about how it works.
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