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Benefits and financial support

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Iris
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #585 on: April 04, 2013, 12:08 PM »
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I know someone who has severe Crohns disease who cannot leave the house because they need to be near a toilet.  Couldn't go to a hearing due to the lack of toilet facilities and Atos refused to come to the house.  The benefit has been stopped and the disease is worse due to the stress, does this person deserve to be demonised?
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DaveH
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #586 on: April 04, 2013, 12:14 PM »
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So how widespread is fraud in the benefit system?

0.7%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to fraud. This is actually less than the benefit that is underpaid.

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/fem_1112.pdf


Meanwhile, the tax gap is estimated at £32bn. £14bn of that due to fraud. So feel 14- 30 times more bitter about working people and their companies not paying tax than you do about benefit frauds.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-gaps/mtg-2012.pdf


Economic fraud costs  an estimated £73bn year. A third of companies report that their largest fraud was by employees. Two thirds of public sector fraud is by employees.

Organized crime costs £9.9bn a year. There are some people to be bitter about. 100% of them criminals.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118530/annual-fraud-indicator-2012.pdf

So the important question is: why do people have this bitterness about benefit fraud, but don't feel just as bitter about tax evasion, organized crime, and insider fraud? When do you ever see the average person complaining about these three types of fraud? Why is it always benefits?
 
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #587 on: April 04, 2013, 12:25 PM »
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This government are out to make scapegoats of people who are in genuine need. This crap about passing windows were the curtains are drawn is a load of sh-t. I do not get up early as I am retired. Perhaps if people were being paid a good wage more people would work if and I say if more jobs were available. Many young people are unemployed you see them in the town cenetre trying to fill their boring day. Not all young people are skivers why does this government go out of it's way to demonize the sick and the unemployed. Also talk of the government trying to change the rules about the minimum wage. I am beginning to think this lot are worse than Thatcher and that is saying something.
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DaveH
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #588 on: April 04, 2013, 12:29 PM »
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I still cannot understand why almost a third of the people on disability benefit have refused to take the medical!

Well, what is the source of that information? It may tell us.
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Hazybear
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #589 on: April 04, 2013, 12:34 PM »
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LB......People who have refused to take the medical are no longer getting the benefit anyway, so they have 'nothing to lose' by taking it, unless of course, they have something to hide!

If you can't travel or make it to the medical because of your health problems then that is taken as refusal rather than inability to attend.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #590 on: April 04, 2013, 12:41 PM »
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Because the politicians play up the benefit fraud with soundbites like "good people trotting out to work past houses with bedroom curtains still drawn" and lots of people have seen that.     It doesn't mean you are passing a scrounger's house.    I am retired and am not an early riser but I have never had benefit of any kind until in my old age I get heating allowance, bus pass and TV licence.    But I have been lucky.     Some people need help and should not be demonised because of the FEW who cheat.    It's a drop in the ocean compared to the other losses as Dave has pointed out.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #591 on: April 04, 2013, 12:54 PM »
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Yes Iluvandy what about all the scams the upper class do to avoid paying taxes and get away with it.
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Caz
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #592 on: April 04, 2013, 01:26 PM »
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I know someone who has severe Crohns disease who cannot leave the house because they need to be near a toilet.  Couldn't go to a hearing due to the lack of toilet facilities and Atos refused to come to the house.  The benefit has been stopped and the disease is worse due to the stress, does this person deserve to be demonised?
No Iris, of course not!
[ Last edit by Caz April 04, 2013, 01:33 PM ] IP Logged
Caz
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #593 on: April 04, 2013, 01:46 PM »
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So how widespread is fraud in the benefit system?

0.7%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to fraud. This is actually less than the benefit that is underpaid.

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/fem_1112.pdf


Meanwhile, the tax gap is estimated at £32bn. £14bn of that due to fraud. So feel 14- 30 times more bitter about working people and their companies not paying tax than you do about benefit frauds.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-gaps/mtg-2012.pdf


Economic fraud costs  an estimated £73bn year. A third of companies report that their largest fraud was by employees. Two thirds of public sector fraud is by employees.

Organized crime costs £9.9bn a year. There are some people to be bitter about. 100% of them criminals.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118530/annual-fraud-indicator-2012.pdf

So the important question is: why do people have this bitterness about benefit fraud, but don't feel just as bitter about tax evasion, organized crime, and insider fraud? When do you ever see the average person complaining about these three types of fraud? Why is it always benefits?
 

Dave, you probably don't hear so many complaints about the other types of fraud, because very few people actually know someone who is commiting this type of fraud, whereas lots of people will know someone who is or has cheated in the past! However, that does not mean to say that people, though I can only speak for myself here, are not at least as angry at other types of fraudsters!
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Caz
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #594 on: April 04, 2013, 01:51 PM »
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If you can't travel or make it to the medical because of your health problems then that is taken as refusal rather than inability to attend.
Well, that's ridiculous Hazel! I've said this before on here many times! I do not begrudge a penny to those who genuinely cannot work and neither to I begrudge the money we spend on foreign aid! I'll write to my MP about those who cannot travel to take the medical and see what he has to say!
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Caz
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #595 on: April 04, 2013, 01:54 PM »
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If you can't travel or make it to the medical because of your health problems then that is taken as refusal rather than inability to attend.
In the Telegraph last weekend Dave! I never read the article myself and don't know whether it was Sat. or Sun., but I'll see if I can find it online!
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Hazybear
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #596 on: April 04, 2013, 03:03 PM »
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22025035

Ah the way justify across the board benefit cuts for people from numerous circumstances. Pull out one of the worst cases of scrounging on the benefits system, with the added bonus that he also killed his 6 kids and you can explain why you're taking money off people who often have little choice!
Still don't get how a man with his upbringing and finances is allowed the right to sneer down and judge the people on low incomes, who are now also not aided by the economic crisis brought on by the bankers and big business who he's cronies with!
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Sir Panda
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #597 on: April 04, 2013, 03:41 PM »
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I understand why this riles you Hazel, but your thinking seems too simplistic to me. Where does Osborne compare Mick Philpott to the average claimant? I don’t see such a linkage or distinction made.

It’s clear that the welfare system needed to be reviewed. Even if this was the exception to the rule, the fact that Mick Philpott could claim the amount of money he did, is rather alarming, and highlights a huge flaw in the way the system operates. I’m averse to the ‘Daily Mail’ mentality, where exceptional cases are brought to our attention, and used as ammunition to tar all of those who claim benefits. However, there must be changes that can be made to prevent this parasitic lifestyle that Philpott enjoyed, without constricting funds to those who need it. This legislation needs to be passed, imo.

Sadly it has taken this story, sensationalised by the tragic loss of life, to provoke a national debate on our welfare system. Looking forward to Question Time tonight.
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tamila
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #598 on: April 04, 2013, 05:32 PM »
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I, as I have said before, worked in a medical centre for very many years.  I saw so many patients who were definitely in need of the benefits but there were quite a few who refused to work because they did not want to do a particular job who found it easier on benefits.  One of the problems of this kind of legislation is that the implementation is done by coundcils etc. who frequently misinterpret it. 

There were also very many people who were claiming everything they could think of and working on the side.  There was one when two families were buying a very large house and wanted to be housed in a council house so they could rent out some rooms.  Luckily the council said a very firm 'NO'.  Something really needs to be done about our welfare system but genuine cases must not penalised.
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Bevc
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Re: Benefits and financial support « Reply #599 on: April 04, 2013, 06:37 PM »
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So how widespread is fraud in the benefit system?

0.7%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to fraud. This is actually less than the benefit that is underpaid.

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/fem_1112.pdf


Meanwhile, the tax gap is estimated at £32bn. £14bn of that due to fraud. So feel 14- 30 times more bitter about working people and their companies not paying tax than you do about benefit frauds.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-gaps/mtg-2012.pdf


Economic fraud costs  an estimated £73bn year. A third of companies report that their largest fraud was by employees. Two thirds of public sector fraud is by employees.

Organized crime costs £9.9bn a year. There are some people to be bitter about. 100% of them criminals.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118530/annual-fraud-indicator-2012.pdf

So the important question is: why do people have this bitterness about benefit fraud, but don't feel just as bitter about tax evasion, organized crime, and insider fraud? When do you ever see the average person complaining about these three types of fraud? Why is it always benefits?


I don't know why I don't know about the tax frauds and I certainly didn't know anyone that would admit they were committing tax fraud. Perhaps the law (which needs tougher sentences imo) needs to make better examples of people. I got so bitter about everything that we left the UK!

Edit:  Re companies tax fraud - isn't there some kind of loophole in the law that companies can 'get away' with paying a lower tax rate.  Isn't that something that's been around for years but hasn't been 'tied up'? dontknow  And then we have the 'celebs' that also took (maybe still take) advantage of a similar loophole too?

Organised crime - yep.  Should be punished.  Why aren't they?

My local council was the centre of the Donnygate scandal

http://m.guardian.co.uk/society/2002/mar/13/uknews

And things didn't improve!
http://m.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/apr/19/doncaster-council-failing-and-dysfunctional

Some things are the same here too.
[ Last edit by Bevc April 04, 2013, 08:44 PM ] IP Logged
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