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Bible discussion thread

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George183
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"ELIZABETH GWEN 27.4.70" in Chit-Chat.

Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #90 on: August 13, 2010, 02:02 PM »
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Thank you for trying to help me with understanding the teachings of Christ.

George, assuming you don't think that any of the writers of the Bible would intentionally lie about what Jesus said then those appear to be actual quotes of what Jesus had verbally said...  There may be some inaccuracies but there's enough mentions of Hell by Jesus that it's fair to say that if he in fact did not make references to it, then the writers simply lied and made it up which brings the entire Bible into question.

As I have already said some writers were mistaken, because they were trying to remember what happened 50 years before.

You have already agreed that if two reports are contradictory then one must be false.


In 3 out of 4 of the Gospels Jesus is 'alleged' to have referred to hell and judgement, so it makes the reports seem as reliable as Jesus discussing a loving God.

I obviously don't see God or Jesus as being contradictory because I can accept and understand God as the loving Judge.

As I have already said, it is not loving to send people to hell. To say that God is loving and that God sends people to hell is contradictory.

Mark has already agreed that if two reports are contradictory then one must be false.


Exactly, this is where George's argument crumbles... you either trust all the writers of the Bible are telling the truth with a reasonable amount of accuracy or you don't.

Because one writer is mistaken doesn’t mean another is.

You have already agreed that if two reports are contradictory then one must be false.


yes you can see that this is a ridiculous standpoint that he has adopted. ... I'm willing to accept that the Gospel writers all record the words of Christ reliably

You cannot accept that the Gospel writers all record the words of Christ reliably, because some records are contradictory.

Mark has already agreed that if two records are contradictory then one must be false.


GEORGE ..... got a question.

The History programme on SKY anytime are running a programme on Ancient Aliens which I found to be fascinating.  It started me thinking and now I am wondering ...

Could Jesus have been an Alien??

Nope.  Smile
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Mark
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #91 on: August 13, 2010, 02:03 PM »
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As all the writers may have made mistakes, you have no argument to only ignore references to hell when by your own reasoning references to God's love could also be false.
[ Last edit by Mark August 13, 2010, 02:06 PM ] IP Logged
Daisy
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #92 on: August 13, 2010, 02:04 PM »
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Quote
GEORGE ..... got a question.

The History programme on SKY anytime are running a programme on Ancient Aliens which I found to be fascinating.  It started me thinking and now I am wondering ...

Could Jesus have been an Alien??


Re your negative response, unless you've watched this programme, you can't just disagree .... it is extremely compelling  Eyebrow raise.
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #93 on: August 13, 2010, 04:38 PM »
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George, personal question that you are free to not answer. Have you lost someone who was not a believer which has resulted in you being unable to accept the idea of hell?
As I said don't answer if it's too painful or I'm being too nosy, or feel free to PM me if you'd rather. As one who has lost family who aren't Christians I know the pain it causes when you know that there is a judgement to be faced after death.
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Daisy
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #94 on: August 13, 2010, 05:03 PM »
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If we all believed that ^, none of us would sleep at night ....
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KitKat
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #95 on: August 13, 2010, 07:09 PM »
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 Good posting!
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Neil
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #96 on: August 13, 2010, 10:34 PM »
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There are 613 commandments. Fact.
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Daisy
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #97 on: August 13, 2010, 10:35 PM »
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Is anyone disputing this ^
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #98 on: August 13, 2010, 11:17 PM »
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Is anyone disputing this ^

If he wants to clarify about what and wordings etc then maybe chat after weekend Smile Don't want to walk into anything or start a chat now as going to bed and got a wedding all day tomorrow and church and birthday lunch on Sunday Very Happy
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Neil
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #99 on: August 13, 2010, 11:23 PM »
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If he wants to clarify about what and wordings etc then maybe chat after weekend Smile Don't want to walk into anything or start a chat now as going to bed and got a wedding all day tomorrow and church and birthday lunch on Sunday Very Happy

While there are "the 10 commandments" in Exodus I think, there are technically, 613 parts that are "commandments" by God. 14 of which are in Exodus btw.

I.e. Things that are rules for you to follow. e.g. "a man that sleeps with beasts should be put to death" is one, but there are many as serious and less serious of course Smile.

But yes, when I say there are 613, that is what I mean.
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #100 on: August 13, 2010, 11:27 PM »
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While there are "the 10 commandments" in Exodus I think, there are technically, 613 parts that are "commandments" by God. 14 of which are in Exodus btw.

I.e. Things that are rules for you to follow. e.g. "a man that sleeps with beasts should be put to death" is one, but there are many as serious and less serious of course Smile.

But yes, when I say there are 613, that is what I mean.

Cool can believe that if we're talking about 'rules' and guidelines rather than outright commands Smile
Oh my fave of weird Old Testament ones is not eating shellfish one lmao Never quite got that one Very Happy
but then in NT you have Peter's vision of the sheet descending from heaven with all kinds of animal that was seen as being unclean and being told to eat as it was fine as it was all made by God, which then overrules that Smile (although does not mean that OT was all written off and not important)

Oh yeah and most are in Exodus and Leviticus as that's where the law is explained and related so that's where you find the practicalities of living out some of the 10 commandments laid out.
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George183
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #101 on: August 14, 2010, 12:48 PM »
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That you for trying to help me understand the teachings of Christ.

As all the writers may have made mistakes, you have no argument to only ignore references to hell when by your own reasoning references to God's love could also be false.

It seems to me that you are wrong Mark, and that I have every argument to ignore only references to hell, because by my own reasoning references to God’s love are more likely to be true, because as I have already said many times over, they are referred to word for word, three times, by three different writers, but references to hell cannot be true because they contradict it, and as you have already agreed if two references are contradictory then one must be false.

I am sorry to see that you find this difficult to understand.

Re your negative response, unless you've watched this programme, you can't just disagree .... it is extremely compelling  Eyebrow raise.

I thought you were joking. I’ve never heard anybody suggest that Christ was an Alien before. Why do you think he was an Alien?

George, personal question that you are free to not answer. Have you lost someone who was not a believer which has resulted in you being unable to accept the idea of hell?
As I said don't answer if it's too painful or I'm being too nosy, or feel free to PM me if you'd rather. As one who has lost family who aren't Christians I know the pain it causes when you know that there is a judgement to be faced after death.

No. As I have already said many times over references to hell cannot be true because they contradict references to God’s love in his Two Great Commandments which are more likely to be true, because, they are referred to word for word, three times, by three different writers, and as Mark has already agreed if two references are contradictory then one must be false.

I am sorry to see that you find this difficult to understand, as it suggests that you think it is loving to condemn somebody to everlasting  hell-fire and damnation, which is rather sad.

There are 613 commandments. Fact.

According to Christ there are only two that count. Fact!  Smile
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Daisy
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #102 on: August 14, 2010, 01:35 PM »
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I thought you were joking. I’ve never heard anybody suggest that Christ was an Alien before. Why do you think he was an Alien?


Don't think I said that I thought he was an Alien ..... I was asking, could he be an Alien and my question was based on the programme I watched as described in an earlier post.
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Yamor
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #103 on: August 14, 2010, 10:59 PM »
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Cool can believe that if we're talking about 'rules' and guidelines rather than outright commands Smile
Oh my fave of weird Old Testament ones is not eating shellfish one lmao Never quite got that one Very Happy
but then in NT you have Peter's vision of the sheet descending from heaven with all kinds of animal that was seen as being unclean and being told to eat as it was fine as it was all made by God, which then overrules that Smile (although does not mean that OT was all written off and not important)

Oh yeah and most are in Exodus and Leviticus as that's where the law is explained and related so that's where you find the practicalities of living out some of the 10 commandments laid out.

In Jewish tradition, there are 613 outright commandments. Various commentators from the middle ages enumerate the 613, with slight differences.
Within each commandment, there are lots of rules and guidelines.
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Mark
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #104 on: August 15, 2010, 05:31 AM »
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George, give up... you have absolutely no argument now. There are references to hell by four writers in the Bible, so your position of believing references to a loving God and ignoring references to hell has absolutely no weight. Be a man and accept that your argument has been ripped apart in every possible way by Hazel and I.

I only said "when there is a contradiction one has to be right" when you falsely put me under the impression that Jesus was never quoted as talking about Hell but was about a loving God. However, as Hazel revealed, this was not true so my comment on that is no longer valid so please don't quote me on it anymore as that's misleading. Instead, in this particular scenario you don't have to take a side due to the contradiction - you now have a choice to either believe one side but not with any confidence or valid reasoning or that you believe both and therefore accept that God's perspective of love is very different from ours due to the existence of hell.

Deal with it like a man, if the morality of God concerns you then stop being a Christian or be a Christian and stop picking and choosing which bits of the Bible to believe with absolutely no credible reasoning at all. I did the former, among other reasons too of course.
[ Last edit by Mark August 15, 2010, 05:46 AM ] IP Logged
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