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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #15 on: July 01, 2010, 05:21 PM »
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One thing I can say for sure is that the Old Testament for me comes over so much better in the original Hebrew.

I was offered classes in Hebrew and Greek at uni, a lot of my friends did Divinity and studied Hebrew and agree with you. I'm useless at languages though Frown wish I was better!
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Yamor
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #16 on: July 01, 2010, 05:25 PM »
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I have an advantage that I was brought up with knowledge of Hebrew. I'd imagine it'd be very difficult to learn, being so different to English (not just because of the different alphabet).
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #17 on: July 01, 2010, 05:27 PM »
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I have an advantage that I was brought up with knowledge of Hebrew. I'd imagine it'd be very difficult to learn, being so different to English (not just because of the different alphabet).

Yeah that's what If find difficult the different structures and grammar and use of words  doh it just escapes me...I had to take Latin last year and really struggled with that!
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Yamor
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #18 on: July 01, 2010, 05:40 PM »
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I know what you mean. I'm also very bad at languages.
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robbie
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #19 on: July 01, 2010, 06:35 PM »
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A Linguistics Professor was lecturing to his English class one day...In "English" he said,a double negative forms a positive...In some languages though such as Russian,a double negative is still a negative...However,there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative...........................a voice from the back of the room piped up....Yeah,Right.
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #20 on: July 01, 2010, 07:15 PM »
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A Linguistics Professor was lecturing to his English class one day...In "English" he said,a double negative forms a positive...In some languages though such as Russian,a double negative is still a negative...However,there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative...........................a voice from the back of the room piped up....Yeah,Right.

 doh lol
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Sir Panda
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Misunderstood genius.

Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #21 on: July 01, 2010, 07:17 PM »
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Robbie has made more women groan than Radek Stepanek.
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #22 on: July 01, 2010, 07:17 PM »
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Robbie has made more women groan than Radek Stepanek.

Now there's a claim to fame lol
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robbie
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #23 on: July 01, 2010, 07:36 PM »
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Robbie has made more women groan than Radek Stepanek.
Oh so so  true. Very Happy
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #24 on: July 28, 2010, 01:10 PM »
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Having been reminded of this thread, I was thinking of adding something soon, but my Bible reading for today was just what I needed so I thought I's post it. Hope it encourages and challenges others too.

Revelation 5

The Scroll and the Lamb

 1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?" 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."

6Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song:

   "You are worthy to take the scroll
      and to open its seals,
   because you were slain,
      and with your blood you purchased men for God
      from every tribe and language and people and nation.
 10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
      and they will reign on the earth."

 11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they sang:
   "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
   to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
   and honor and glory and praise!"

 13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
   "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
   be praise and honor and glory and power,
         for ever and ever!" 14The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.

The notes on this for today were:
'Isaiah had a vision of the throne (Isa 6:1) and a vision of the Lamb (Isa 53:7), but they were seen as distinct and separate. Here they are brought together and the Lamb is seen as standing upon the throne. This is saying that at the heart of the universe lies not simply omnipotent power but self-sacrificing love. God rules - but he rules from a cross. Here the curtains (reference to the temple curtains in Jerusalem) are thrown wide open and God is seen for what he really is -  not just might, power or omnipotence but deep abiding love. Some people think that the main strand which binds the universe together is eternal power. But it is not. It is sacrificial love.'
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Mark
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #25 on: July 28, 2010, 01:38 PM »
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2 Kings 2:23-24

Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #26 on: July 28, 2010, 02:49 PM »
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2 Kings 2:23-24

Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

In context of this, Elijah the prophet has just been whisked away to heaven in a fiery chariot from heaven (the only man who never physically died, but was taken to heaven before death) and Elisha (his 2nd in command) has taken up his mantle (literally) and is now the spiritual leader to the people of Israel and God's messenger to the people.

According to my commentary on these verses 'The youths were from Bethal, the religious centre of idolatry in the northern kingdom (this is after  the land has been split into Judah and Israel), and they were probably warning Elisha not to speak against their immorality as Elijah had done. They were not merely teasing Elisha about his baldness ( lol ) but showing severe disrespect for Elisha's message and God's power. They may have also jeered in disbelief about what had just happened to Elijah. Elisha did not call the bears himself. God sent them as a judgement for their callous behaviour and more importantly their immorality (not just because Elisha went 'hey God I don't like these guys kill them' God's not our own personal assassin Very Happy )
 
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Mark
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #27 on: July 28, 2010, 02:53 PM »
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What immoral actions were they involved in that made it appropriate for God to murder them but also in such a horrible way (mauled by bears)?
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #28 on: July 28, 2010, 03:18 PM »
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Okay I know from both are standpoints that we'll never agree on why God is allowed to judge and punish.
Also will highlight that while I don't hold the belief that everything in the OT was seen as rubbish after the coming of Christ and his teachings to fulfil the law, which was laid out in the OT; that in the OT people had to atone for their sins and were punished, although God did forgive and bless the people as well.
Christ died for our sins and received the punishment we deserved, however for the people of Israel and the other nations in the world, they were held accountable to the law that God had presented to Moses.
Also while Christ came to save all people, the OT specifically follows the people of Israel as God's chosen people, as he nurtures them and guides them down the line to the birth of Christ from the line of David.
Hope that makes sense, even if you don't agree Smile

So at the end of 1 Kings 22:51 we read that:
51 Ahaziah son of Ahab became king of Israel in Samaria in the seventeenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and he reigned over Israel two years. 52 He did evil in the eyes of the LORD, because he walked in the ways of his father and mother and in the ways of Jeroboam son of Nebat, who caused Israel to sin. 53 He served and worshiped Baal and provoked the LORD, the God of Israel, to anger, just as his father had done.


It is from this that the story moves into 2 Kings. The purpose of this book is to demonstrate the fate of those who refuse to make god their true leader and follow Him in action and in their hearts. So it was written to warn and to show God's wrath towards those who turned from him.

 (I know you think that God shouldn't be allowed to command us, if he actually exists, but this is the perspective from which it's written)

The worship of Baal meant that the people led a hedonistic lifestyle that centred on war, cruelty, power, greed and sex. While these leaders and kings had Gods law, priests and prophets to guide them they turned away and sought priests they could manipulate to speak to their advantage and justify their selfish lifestyle.

It is because of this immorality that god punished the people.
The rest of the book of 2 Kings does show what choosing to sin gets the people, especially the kings and leaders. However it also shows God's mercy, forgiveness, love and patience with them as well.

I know you google etc to find the 'extreme' sounding bits Smile but maybe read a bit more of the book and place some of these verses in context? Might help explain them to you Smile
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Mark
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 03:39 PM »
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Even in context, God of the Old Testament comes off sounding a bit like a tyrant dictator.
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