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Bible discussion thread

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Daisy
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #45 on: August 04, 2010, 08:32 PM »
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Ya reckon?  There's definitely more to life than meets the eye, Dais.  Smile

Just so ....

And, what are you doing lallygaggin' on here when you should be churning out the next chapter of Elizabeth Gwen  Very Happy
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George183
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #46 on: August 04, 2010, 08:45 PM »
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Just so ....

And, what are you doing lallygaggin' on here when you should be churning out the next chapter of Elizabeth Gwen  Very Happy

Gettin' dis-tracted,  but,  first things first.  I have to deal with my parallel universe heavenly responsibilities before I can get back to this one!!  Very Happy

And this is just preparing you for what you're going to read in "Eliz Gwen", which reminds me, I have to make an announcement on that thread.
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #47 on: August 07, 2010, 02:39 PM »
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There is no such thing as hell, damnation, judgement day, or anything else. It is all the figment of a vindictive imagination.

As you say it would not be loving, and so is inconsistent with a loving God, which Christ teaches us God is.

You are worrying for nothing. Heaven is a parallel universe which we can enter now, and where we can live a parallel existence, in loving communion with God and our loved ones, forever, or not, as we wish.


The problem is George is that you view death with fear, and see death as unnatural and bad. When I look at your above statements, especially the first sentence then I know you have never really read the Bible as your views are completely at odds with a scriptural understanding of God and Christ and his teachings.

There is so much in this that I disagree with theologically that I am not quite sure where to start. I'm going to try and first deal with your statement that

There is no such thing as hell, damnation, judgement day, or anything else. It is all the figment of a vindictive imagination.


'Vindictive imagination' which single mind was vindictive enough to come up with an idea of hell? I'm sorry but while there was a lot of exaggeration and additions made throughout the middle ages to the catholic (by which I mean universal) church (pre reformation) to concepts and understandings of heaven and hell and what each encompassed and how one reached either 'place' it was not a 'concept' created by a human mind.

From a purely theological standpoint, and for the present time accepting that your blindness to the need for, and importance of the Old Testament as a context, and history which leads to the birth life, death and resurrection of Christ- Never mind that it was the word of God, yes through man (prophets) but you seem willing enough to accept the word of Christ through the writings of men (apostles and disciples) so I'm confused how one lot of writings are described as being vindictive and corrupt, while the others are held up and quoted by you. Anyway accepting your blindness to the Old Testament I will try and turn to the New Testament to discuss and argue against your position that there is no hell, damnation or judgement day.
Okay I tried and failed, there is no way to discuss this without reference to the Old testament, even if it is only to put everything in historical context. However, note that while everything below voices my view on the subject I have used the words of a group that has been going and has committed itself to the reading and understanding of scripture for the last 150 years.

I used the below link and have copied quite a bit from it as it is detailed and the group that produce it are extremely based and grounded in an intellectual as well as faith based reading of scripture.

http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/heaven.htm

The below explains the different words that have been interpreted as 'hell' and the various meanings connected to those words:

Hell is the Grave
There are three main words in the Authorised Version which have been rendered "hell". In the Old Testament it is the Hebrew word sheol; in the Greek of the New Testament there are two words, hades and gehenna. The word sheol was commonly used to indicate the abode of the dead below the earth. It is better rendered by "the grave" or "the pit". In the Authorised Version sheol has been translated "grave" and "hell" on 31 occasions each, and "pit" on three occasions. Sheol is therefore the grave, the common place of the dead where men's bodies are subject to decay. The grave is the place where the dead "know not anything . . . their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished . . there is no knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave" (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10).

"Like sheep they are laid in the grave (sheol); death shall feed on them . and their beauty shall consume in the grave (sheol)" (Psalm 49:14).

There are no exceptions: death and the grave give to men an equality they can never find in life, for:

"There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest. There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor. The small and the great are there; and the servant is free from his master" (Job 3:17-19).

In the New Testament the word hades is the equivalent of the Hebrew sheol. In the Septuagint - a translation of the Old Testament into Greek, compiled approximately two hundred and fifty years before the birth of Jesus - this word is used almost without exception to represent sheol. In Peter's speech on the Day of Pentecost he quotes from Psalm 16 to prove the resurrection of Jesus and the Greek text of Acts uses the word hades:

"Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither suffer thine Holy One to see corruption" (Acts 2:27).


So they explain 'hell' as the 'abode of the dead'

However, there is the third word - gehenna:

"Hell Fire"
The third word translated "hell" is gehenna, a term always associated with fire and with one exception only found in the Gospels. The relevant passages in Matthew's record of the Gospel are as follows: 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33. It is worth observing that there are thus only about half a dozen different references to "hell fire" in the Bible. Of course, even if there were only one, it would still need to be given careful consideration to determine its meaning.

For the purpose of our enquiry we shall take just one passage: the explanation given in this instance applies equally to all the others. We have selected the words from Mark 9 (parallel to Matthew 18:8,9) because this is undoubtedly the most explicit and comprehensive example of the Lord's teaching about Gehenna:

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (verses 43,44, see also 45-49).

From a superficial reading one might feel a certain repugnance about eternal fires and never-dying worms. Happily neither of these ideas is involved in a true understanding of the passage.

The word Gehenna comes from the Hebrew Ge-Hinnom, which was in fact a geographical location. It means the Valley of Hinnom, sometimes referred to as Tophet. It was a valley on the edge of the (then) city of Jerusalem and from the earliest times it was a place of ill repute - associated with idolatrous worship and abhorred by the Jews because of horrific practices associated with false worship: see, for example, Jeremiah 7:31-33. In the days of Josiah the valley was cleansed and its evil practices forbidden (2 Kings 23:10). Its infamy, however, lived on and it became a place for Jews to burn the refuse of the city; later they used it to dispose of the carcases of animals and unburied criminals after execution. For this purpose and to avoid the stench of putrefaction, fires were kept burning there continually and it became synonymous with death and condemnation.

The reference to fires that are never quenched now begins to be seen more clearly: they are used to express the nature of divine judgement. The judgements of God are certain and inexorable. This indeed is what is suggested by, "Their worm dieth not" - nothing can prevent or interfere with the declared judgement of God upon those who turn their backs on Him.



The Destiny of the Wicked
So far as the wicked are concerned, we have already established that they cannot possibly exist after death, suffering eternal torment and misery. The following passages are a selection from many:

"The wicked shall perish . . . they shall consume away" (Psalm 37:20).
"He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light. Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish" (Psalm 49:19,20).
"The wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it" (Proverbs 2:22).
"They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish" (Isaiah 26:14).
"They shall be punished with everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

The final punishment of the wicked is therefore annihilation, perpetual death, cut off from the land of the living for ever. This is fitting and appropriate in the light of our understanding of Bible teaching concerning life and death, "for the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).


The Reward of the Righteous
But what of the reward of the righteous? We have seen that their eternal inheritance is the earth - an earth perfected and purged of all evil. We have, however, also learned that all men by nature are subject to death and that in death they have no conscious being. If Scriptural teaching is to be consistent, then there is only one possible way for the righteous to receive their reward: they must be made to live again by resurrection from the dead. The last Old Testament passage quoted in connection with the destiny of the wicked (Isaiah 26:1 4) spoke of their death as eternal: "They shall not rise." In the same chapter, however, the prophet contrasts the fate of these with the reward of the righteous:

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead" (v. 19).

How is this to be achieved? The salvation that God offers necessitated Jesus' resurrection from the dead; and this has made it possible for all faithful men to be raised from the dead as he was. So Jesus could say, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" (John 11:25); and on another occasion, "For the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his (the Son of man's, i.e. Jesus') voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28,29).

In his first Letter to the Corinthians, the apostle Paul deals at length with the resurrection of the dead, showing that it is at the very heart of the Christian hope. His challenge to some who doubted this doctrine was:

"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain . . . Ye are yet in your sins . . . they also which are fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (15:12-18).

Resurrection
If there is no resurrection of the dead, there is no hope. But the triumphant conclusion of the apostle is:

"In fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ" (verses 20-23, R.S.V.).

How could the apostle be more specific? Only through resurrection will life after death be achieved, and the Lord Jesus Christ is but the first of a great multitude, the first fruits of a great harvest of dead believers who will live again when Jesus returns to the earth.

There we have the key to the whole situation. While the world continues as it is now, dominated by evil men pursuing their ambition for power, it is difficult for us to envisage how the meek will ever inherit the earth, but central to the purpose of God is the second coming of Jesus to overthrow the kingdom of men; to destroy all that oppose Him and to establish the kingdom of God, a divine society founded on principles of righteousness and equity over which he will reign for ever (see Matthew 6:10; Revelation 11:1 5; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; Daniel 2:44; Micah 4:1-5).

Scripture teaching is not complicated and difficult to comprehend, but rational and logical.

Judgement The Scriptures speak of two classes of people raised from the sleep of death at the last day: those who are given everlasting life, and others raised to shame and condemnation (Daniel 12:2). In fact mankind can be divided into three classes. First there are those who will not be raised from the dead, who have lived their lives in ignorance of God and His purpose and who consequently have no responsibility to Him: "Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish" (Psalm 49:20). Consistent with this, Daniel wrote that not all but "many of them that sleep shall awake".

For the second category - those who through their knowledge and understanding of God have become responsible to Him yet have not been faithful in their lives - there is an inevitable judgement at the great tribunal when God, through Jesus, shall judge "every man according as his work shall be" (Revelation 22:12). And then there is the third category: for the faithful it will be the fulfilment of all their hopes-a resurrection to eternal life, lived in a glorious incorruptible body, reigning as kings and priests upon the earth with the Lord Jesus Christ.


These are only parts of the online pamphlet but the link leads to the rest of it.

George, I don't expect for any of this to make any difference to what you say and think. However, I do want to ensure that a properly scriptural and Christian (i.e Christ-like) understanding of this topic is made available to those who may think that you are speaking a mainstream theological view, rather than your own concept that is without biblical support. Since you only put your weight behind New Testament teachings then how do you account for this parable of Christ's?

The Sheep and the Goats

 31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

 37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

 40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

 41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

The Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke all make explicit references to hell.

For those who want to check any of the above scriptural references for themselves then the below link is a good site which allows you to search scripture for yourself and in various translations and versions.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/
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George183
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #48 on: August 07, 2010, 03:19 PM »
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It’s kind of you to try and help me to understand the teachings of Christ.

The Bible is full of contradictions.

I have already referred to the extracts which contain Christ’s Commandments.

They say that we should love God and love our neighbour as ourself for God so loved the world that he sent Christ so that if we accept him we can enjoy eternal life.

I don’t know why you have a problem with that.
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #49 on: August 07, 2010, 03:25 PM »
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George, I quoted and responded to the above statement of yours, don't move the topic of conversation. I am dealing with what you said about judgement and hell, not anything you said about Christ's commands on love.
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #50 on: August 07, 2010, 03:44 PM »
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George, I quoted and responded to the above statement of yours, don't move the topic of conversation. I am dealing with what you said about judgement and hell, not anything you said about Christ's commands on love.

As I’ve just said the Bible is full of contradictions.

As I’ve already said, anything that contradicts Christ’s Commandments that God is love is false.

As I’ve already said Judgement and Hell are not loving.

As I’ve already said that means they contradict Christ’s Commandments that God is love.

As I’ve already said that means they are false.

As I’ve just said. I don’t understand why you have a problem with adhering to Christ’s Commandments of the New Testament that God is love.
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Mark
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #51 on: August 07, 2010, 03:46 PM »
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I suppose it depends on what you believe to be hell, I hear a lot of Christians say it's simply the absence of God but how they figured that out when the Bible clearly says it to be something else, I don't know.

Without a doubt, the existence of Hell, as described in the Bible, shows God not to be love which is probably why Christians like to make up their own milder descriptions of what Hell is.
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #52 on: August 07, 2010, 04:15 PM »
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As I’ve just said the Bible is full of contradictions.

As I’ve already said, anything that contradicts Christ’s Commandments that God is love is false.

As I’ve already said Judgement and Hell are not loving.

As I’ve already said that means they contradict Christ’s Commandments that God is love.

As I’ve already said that means they are false.

As I’ve just said. I don’t understand why you have a problem with adhering to Christ’s Commandments of the New Testament that God is love.


God is just

God loves us completely but does not love and cannot love sin and will judge us Shrug sorry if you cannot accept that God is bigger than the box you try and put him in to make you comfortable.

Christ himself talks of hell in the below passage...how do you account for that then?

Matthew 5

The Beatitudes

 1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
 3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
      for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
 4Blessed are those who mourn,
      for they will be comforted.
 5Blessed are the meek,
      for they will inherit the earth.
 6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
      for they will be filled.
 7Blessed are the merciful,
      for they will be shown mercy.
 8Blessed are the pure in heart,
      for they will see God.
 9Blessed are the peacemakers,
      for they will be called sons of God.
 10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
      for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
 11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light

 13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
 14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law

 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
 23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

 25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.[d]

Adultery

 27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce

 31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths

 33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
An Eye for an Eye

 38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #53 on: August 07, 2010, 04:20 PM »
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I suppose it depends on what you believe to be hell, I hear a lot of Christians say it's simply the absence of God but how they figured that out when the Bible clearly says it to be something else, I don't know.

Without a doubt, the existence of Hell, as described in the Bible, shows God not to be love which is probably why Christians like to make up their own milder descriptions of what Hell is.

No I think hell is awful...I think it is a place where those who have rejected God and who he is and have rejected Christ's offer of forgiveness and love go. And they then realise He is God.
God gives us every opportunity to freely choose Him. However, if you have said all your life that you do not believe in his existence or saving grace then he will hold you too that choice, if that is the choice you die with.
God is love and so sent his Son, that whoever believes in him shall have eternal life there's the key- belief in Christ and who he says he is and what he has done.

God is just. We deserve death but instead we are offered life. If we choose to reject the offer of life then that is our decision.
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #54 on: August 07, 2010, 04:22 PM »
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God is just

God loves us completely but does not love and cannot love sin and will judge us Shrug sorry if you cannot accept that God is bigger than the box you try and put him in to make you comfortable.

Christ himself talks of hell in the below passage...how do you account for that then?

Matthew 5

The Beatitudes

 1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
 3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
      for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
 4Blessed are those who mourn,
      for they will be comforted.
 5Blessed are the meek,
      for they will inherit the earth.
 6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
      for they will be filled.
 7Blessed are the merciful,
      for they will be shown mercy.
 8Blessed are the pure in heart,
      for they will see God.
 9Blessed are the peacemakers,
      for they will be called sons of God.
 10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
      for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
 11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light

 13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
 14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law

 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder

 21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
 23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

 25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.[d]

Adultery

 27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce

 31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths

 33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
An Eye for an Eye

 38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor

hug
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Sir Panda
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Misunderstood genius.

Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #55 on: August 07, 2010, 04:23 PM »
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This thread makes my brain hurt.
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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #56 on: August 07, 2010, 04:24 PM »
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Again another parable that Christ told

The Rich Man and Lazarus

 19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
 22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

 25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

 27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

 29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

 30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

 31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Footnotes:
Luke 16:6 Greek one hundred batous (probably about 3 kiloliters)
Luke 16:7 Greek one hundred korous (probably about 35 kiloliters)
Luke 16:23 Greek Hades


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Hazybear
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #57 on: August 07, 2010, 04:25 PM »
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This thread makes my brain hurt.

What makes my brain hurt is George saying he accepts the teachings of Christ and then picking and choosing which bits he quotes to fit with his own personal little delusion.

He says that anything that contradicts his idea of what 'God is love' means is false.

He says that judgement and hell contradict 'Christ's commandments that God is love'

And yet, Christ himself spoke about judgement and hell  

So apparently Christ himself contradicts his own commandments according to George who says he believes Christ's commands  confused
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Mark
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #58 on: August 07, 2010, 05:05 PM »
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No Hazel, God is not love if someone chooses not to believe him due to the lack of evidence and in doing so is sent to a place of everlasting torture that God allows the existence of. That is a God who's a bit of a dick, I can't see you being able to give a valid argument against that unless you choose to believe Hell is not as it is decribed in the Bible
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Re: Bible Discussion thread « Reply #59 on: August 07, 2010, 05:08 PM »
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This thread makes my brain hurt.

 yes  Just resembles a Filibuster more than anything else ....
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