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Death

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George183
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"ELIZABETH GWEN 27.4.70" in Chit-Chat.

Re: Death « Reply #105 on: July 29, 2010, 06:06 PM »
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I don't see how anyone can conclude from the Bible that God chooses our time of death. That would certainly suggest an unloving God when you consider the type of situations we've been talking about, it also completely contradicts the idea of free will that Christianity promotes.

Right. That’s an interesting point, especially when one bears in mind that Christ himself, promoted healing, and healed people himself and even brought Lazarus “back from the dead”, and the fact that the whole point of the medical profession throughout the Christian Era, supported by the missionary Church, has been to reduce suffering and prolong life. And the whole point of healthy living, eating the right food, avoiding smoking and taking plenty of exercise is also aimed at reducing suffering and prolonging life. God put it in our hands to reduce suffering and prolong life.
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Aileen
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Re: Death « Reply #106 on: July 29, 2010, 07:12 PM »
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OMG - George without question marks! fainting

Seriously,
I can assure you Hazel that you have been misled if you think that God wants you to die in agony. He does not, because as the New Testament tells us in 1 John 4:16 “God is love” and that would not be loving.
Why then did God allow Jesus to die an undignified, humiliating and agonising death?  The implication here is that suffering before we die is to be the lot of good Christians, and a lot of Christians I know subscribe to this belief.  One has to descend into Hell before ascending to Heaven.
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Mark
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Re: Death « Reply #107 on: July 29, 2010, 07:14 PM »
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That's a very strange way of looking at Christ's death, never heard of it before.
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Daisy
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Re: Death « Reply #108 on: July 29, 2010, 07:21 PM »
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Seriously ... ... One has to descend into Hell before ascending to Heaven.

Seriously .... who actually knows this ....  no-one.

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George183
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"ELIZABETH GWEN 27.4.70" in Chit-Chat.

Re: Death « Reply #109 on: July 29, 2010, 08:32 PM »
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Seriously .... who actually knows this ....  no-one.

Seriously, how true, because it is false.


Seriously,Why then did God allow Jesus to die an undignified, humiliating and agonising death?  The implication here is that suffering before we die is to be the lot of good Christians, and a lot of Christians I know subscribe to this belief.  One has to descend into Hell before ascending to Heaven.

May I reassure you that you have been completely misled to think that God intervenes in the universe at all, or ever has, save for creating it, and that no implications, dire or otherwise, can therefore follow.

God created the universe such that it would create homo sapiens automatically through the process of evolution. He created the universe to create us and to sustain us.The universe belongs to us. We are in sole charge. It is God’s gift.

God in His parallel heavenly universe loves us as our Heavenly Father. We can contact Him and live with Him and our loved ones forever, if we want to, or not. It is our choice not His. As Mark said, He has given us Free will. He cannot contact us.

I can reassure you that everything unloving in the Bible is false, and based on primitive, uneducated, sometimes malicious, superstition, myth and fantasy, as James will be happy to confirm.

The only thing in the Bible we can substantiate, scientifically, (and James will dispute even this, as he is free to do) is that God created the universe, and that it is to our psychological advantage to love Him, and our neighbour as ourselves, as individual members of the species, homo sapiens, because it enhances our fitness to survive.
[ Last edit by George183 July 29, 2010, 09:16 PM ] IP Logged
Mark
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Re: Death « Reply #110 on: July 29, 2010, 08:39 PM »
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Yes, also agree that there is no intervention from God, this would contradict the free will apparently given to us and it would also mean natural disasters are simply allowed to happen for no good reason at all.
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Daisy
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Re: Death « Reply #111 on: July 29, 2010, 08:43 PM »
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 and that it is to our psychological advantage to love Him, and our neighbour as ourselves, as individual members of the species, homo sapiens, because it enhances our fitness to survive.


...and this translates (for me) to an individual's ability to apply the power of positive thinking.
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Mark
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Re: Death « Reply #112 on: July 29, 2010, 08:47 PM »
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...and this translates (for me) to an individual's ability to apply the power of positive thinking.
Exactly yes
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Aileen
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Re: Death « Reply #113 on: July 29, 2010, 09:09 PM »
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That's a very strange way of looking at Christ's death, never heard of it before.
Maybe the difference lies in our respective faiths, or rather what we have been taught to believe as a result of these faiths.  I was brought up in a fairly strict Presbyterian Church of Scotland family.  However, I personally no longer subscribe to the teachings of my parents and my grandparents, not to mention a number of pulpit-thumpers, that, in order to emulate Chist's suffering and death and eventual ascension, it was desirable that a certain degree of suffering had to be gone through before one died in order to enjoy the delights of Heaven.

Unfortunately, there are still Christians who do subscribe to this - you only have to listen to those, some of whom are suffering from debilitating or untreatable illnesses, who violently oppose euthanasia and assisted suicide because they are convinced that pre-death suffering is God's will and that therefore it must be endured no matter how terrible, and that therefore no-one other than God has the right to terminate it.


[ Last edit by Aileen July 29, 2010, 09:16 PM ] IP Logged
Daisy
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Re: Death « Reply #114 on: July 29, 2010, 09:20 PM »
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We all know there are only two things certain in this life ... death & taxes ... but this has to be the most dreary depressing thread on MW ....  Frown
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George183
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"ELIZABETH GWEN 27.4.70" in Chit-Chat.

Re: Death « Reply #115 on: July 29, 2010, 09:22 PM »
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We all know there are only two things certain in this life ... death & taxes ... but this has to be the most dreary depressing thread on MW ....  Frown

Not for me. I don't believe it death !!  Smile
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Daisy
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Re: Death « Reply #116 on: July 29, 2010, 09:24 PM »
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Not for me. I don't believe it death !!  Smile

I'm talking physical ... not spiritual ....  Smile  Unless, there's something you're not telling us George ....
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Aileen
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Re: Death « Reply #117 on: July 29, 2010, 09:30 PM »
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We all know there are only two things certain in this life ... death & taxes ... but this has to be the most dreary depressing thread on MW ....  Frown
I do agree, but blame Andrew - he started it. Smile
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George183
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"ELIZABETH GWEN 27.4.70" in Chit-Chat.

Re: Death « Reply #118 on: July 29, 2010, 09:35 PM »
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I'm talking physical ... not spiritual ....  Smile  Unless, there's something you're not telling us George ....

OK, Well, since you asked. For a start off, I have it on good authority from my friends in the US in medical research on the death of cells, that I will be one of the first people to live until I'm 150.

Secondly, I don't live in the flesh, I live in my mind, which will never die.  
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Daisy
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Re: Death « Reply #119 on: July 29, 2010, 09:36 PM »
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OK, Well, since you asked. For a start off, I have it on good authority from my friends in the US in medical research on the death of cells, that I will be one of the first people to live until I'm 150.

Secondly, I don't live in the flesh, I live in my mind, which will never die. 

I am DEFINITELY not getting ...


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