Home Search Calendar Help Login Register
Did you miss your activation email?
MurraysWorld Discussions  >  General Community  >  Chit Chat  >  Free will 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 ... 44 Go Down Reply
Author

Free will

 (Read 7705 times)
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,174

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Free will « Reply #30 on: April 04, 2012, 08:23 PM »
Reply

I'm not actually going to argue this with you. Because I can't provide empirical stats, neurological printouts proving free will etc and so you won't be happy. Also I feel utterly crap tonight and so able to wind you up but not to be sensible Smile

So impenetrable logic and sound evidence are trumped by, what, intuition?

Sorry you're feeling like crap.
IP Logged
Hazybear
Grand Slam Champion
********
Posts: 13,849

Gender: Female
Location: Livingston


Re: Free will « Reply #31 on: April 04, 2012, 08:33 PM »
Reply

So impenetrable logic and sound evidence are trumped by, what, intuition?

Sorry you're feeling like crap.

No I'm just saying that free will isn't something that can just be argued based on the physical processes of out bodies, I also don't understand enough about biology or psychology to really properly engage in a discussion at the level you're suggesting Smile

Yeah doing a work experience through the jobcentre, the people in the office I'm in are great and the work mentally is fine but the 3rd day on the trot has proved very hard and I'm going to have to see how I get on tomorrow-only just made it through today and that was because I refused when they said I could head home early Smile
IP Logged
Emma Jean
Veteran
******
Posts: 8,961

Gender: Female
Location: Toronto, Canada


We will be Victorious

Re: Free will « Reply #32 on: April 04, 2012, 08:56 PM »
Reply

I am against death penalty and all for prevention and rehabilitation, and I agree that the law shouldn’t be about retribution though not for the same reasons but some things are or some people are always and will always be beyond help.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119103/Serbian-gangsters-killed-rival-ate-disposed-body-using-MEAT-GRINDER-dumping-remains-river.html


I also believe that free will does exist but only to a certain extent. I also don’t believe in coincidences at all. Coincidences are only things that we still can’t explain in the general terms. Time just limits all the possibilities for whatever reason and puts us in a very limited dimension.  Besdies which, human brains aren’t equipped to grasp a lot of the information all at once. There are cases when things became overwhelming for some people, their brains went directly into the standby mode. In other words, the brain stopped functioning properly immediately. It’s like you are feeding too much data into something that isn’t designed in the first place to take it all in all at once. 
IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,174

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Free will « Reply #33 on: April 04, 2012, 09:46 PM »
Reply

I am against death penalty and all for prevention and rehabilitation, and I agree that the law shouldn’t be about retribution though not for the same reasons but some things are or some people are always and will always be beyond help.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119103/Serbian-gangsters-killed-rival-ate-disposed-body-using-MEAT-GRINDER-dumping-remains-river.html


I also believe that free will does exist but only to a certain extent. I also don’t believe in coincidences at all. Coincidences are only things that we still can’t explain in the general terms. Time just limits all the possibilities for whatever reason and puts us in a very limited dimension.  Besdies which, human brains aren’t equipped to grasp a lot of the information all at once. There are cases when things became overwhelming for some people, their brains went directly into the standby mode. In other words, the brain stopped functioning properly immediately. It’s like you are feeding too much data into something that isn’t designed in the first place to take it all in all at once. 


What makes you believe we have free will? The argument against it really is impenetrable, even if you believe in the soul.
IP Logged
Mark
Murraymaniac
*
Posts: 53,055

Gender: Male
Location: London


Re: Free will « Reply #34 on: April 04, 2012, 09:56 PM »
Reply

James, you are obligated to provide decent evidence first for such a bold claim.

I've not researched it yet but it would take me some convincing that we have no free will at all. I can accept that we are more likely to make certain decisions based on predetermined factors but I don't see the lengthy internal debate one can have over an important decision being already decided for me before it began.

I can totally accept that the food I choose to eat may have been predetermined by unconscious means but I don't see that applying to everything. Of course, I'm ready to be gob-smacked by his book and no doubt I'll quote this post and laugh at my ignorance in the future.
[ Last edit by Mark April 04, 2012, 10:05 PM ] IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,174

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Free will « Reply #35 on: April 05, 2012, 01:18 AM »
Reply

James, you are obligated to provide decent evidence first for such a bold claim.

I've not researched it yet but it would take me some convincing that we have no free will at all. I can accept that we are more likely to make certain decisions based on predetermined factors but I don't see the lengthy internal debate one can have over an important decision being already decided for me before it began.

You're confusing determinism with fatalism. It's not that everything is already decided, but rather it's that you don't consciously author your choices. EVERYTHING you choose is because of something else. You are who you are because of prior causes that you had no control over. In other words, who you are and the decisions you make are the product of prior causes.

Over and above simple logic, neuroscientific evidence actually demonstrates that decisions are made before we are consciously aware of making them.

Quote
I can totally accept that the food I choose to eat may have been predetermined by unconscious means but I don't see that applying to everything. Of course, I'm ready to be gob-smacked by his book and no doubt I'll quote this post and laugh at my ignorance in the future.

You will.

Also, why not just watch the video I linked to? It will give you a firm grasp of the arguments. Plus, he's a brilliant orator. If I had to choose an intellectual hero, it would be Sam Harris. The man is a peerless thinker.
IP Logged
scotnadian
World No 1
*******
Posts: 12,061

Gender: Female
Location: Toronto, Canada (ex Aberdeen, Scotland)


You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Free will « Reply #36 on: April 05, 2012, 01:56 AM »
Reply

I'm going to watch the link tomorrow Clydey.. too busy and late right now, but I am intrigued.
I'll be interested to know about babies.
Also.. my son is growing up in a different country from his place of birth, so this would affect his life decisions/free will?
IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,174

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Free will « Reply #37 on: April 05, 2012, 02:02 AM »
Reply

I'm going to watch the link tomorrow Clydey.. too busy and late right now, but I am intrigued.
I'll be interested to know about babies.
Also.. my son is growing up in a different country from his place of birth, so this would affect his life decisions/free will?

Everything does. You are the product of your genes and environment, so growing up in a different culture will impact how he develops.
IP Logged
Caz
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,223


I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Free will « Reply #38 on: April 05, 2012, 07:06 AM »
Reply

Well, I'm going to use my "free will" to choose  not to believe in the theory that there is no such thing as "free will"......
Hope that's not a double negative...Wink
Don't worry BBH! If it were true that we lack free will [which I don't believe], and that decisions are taken in our brain before our conciousness is aware, it must only apply to men, as it's a well known fact that we ladies are 'always' changing our minds!  Whistle

IP Logged
Caz
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,223


I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Free will « Reply #39 on: April 05, 2012, 07:54 AM »
Reply

Inconvenient? I wish there was a God for the sake of an afterlife.
Mark, there is.......and there is!
IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,174

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Free will « Reply #40 on: April 05, 2012, 08:32 AM »
Reply

Don't worry BBH! If it were true that we lack free will [which I don't believe], and that decisions are taken in our brain before our conciousness is aware, it must only apply to men, as it's a well known fact that we ladies are 'always' changing our minds!  Whistle

Why do you believe you have free will?

Mark, there is.......and there is!

How can you possibly know that?
IP Logged
Bevc
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 35,360

Gender: Female
Location: Cambridge - New Zealand


I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter!

Re: Free will « Reply #41 on: April 05, 2012, 09:18 AM »
Reply

Everything does. You are the product of your genes and environment, so growing up in a different culture will impact how he develops.

I don't know Sam Harris but my son has a Robert Winston book, The Human Mind, and he briefly talks about this in the chapter, a question of character and would appear to confirm this.

I'm currently reading Human Instinct and then will go onto this book.
IP Logged
Clydey
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 22,174

Gender: Male
Location: Scotland


Re: Free will « Reply #42 on: April 05, 2012, 09:21 AM »
Reply

I don't know Sam Harris but my son has a Robert Winston book, The Human Mind, and he briefly talks about this in the chapter, a question of character and would appear to confirm this.

I'm currently reading Human Instinct and then will go onto this book.

I'd be interested in reading that book. I'll have a look on Amazon.
IP Logged
Bevc
Murraymaniac
**********
Posts: 35,360

Gender: Female
Location: Cambridge - New Zealand


I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter!

Re: Free will « Reply #43 on: April 05, 2012, 09:28 AM »
Reply

He does say that he's no expert in the field of cognitive neuroscience but over recent years became interested in the field and was persuaded to write the book.

I'm liking his other book but then I like him anyway.  He engages me yes
IP Logged
blueberryhill
World No 1
*******
Posts: 10,024



Re: Free will « Reply #44 on: April 05, 2012, 09:51 AM »
Reply

Inconvenient? I wish there was a God for the sake of an afterlife.


Would you really want to meet an all powerful being who has allowed childhood leukaemia for example. I wouldn't.

@ Clydey, I find this theory neither especially interesting or especially threatening. It's not going to alter my belief system or the way I behave. If I thought it might alter Government policy regarding prisoners, delinquent kids or the mentally ill, I might be more interested, but alas experience shows that scientific research has little impact. Probably because there are so few scientists in H of C. In fact I suspect more in H of Ls.
However, where does taking responsibility for what you do, fit into this? Because taking that away, surely does impact on Society big time.
IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 ... 44 Go Up Reply 
« previous next »