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Free will

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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #360 on: June 04, 2012, 02:16 AM »
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I'm saying in principle it can be falsified. If you mean falsifiable in the sense Popper used the term, then no it isn't. It doesn't make testable predictions. Again, it could in principle make testable predictions.

There are many things we don't consider falsifiable in the Popperian sense that we consider sound knowledge, though.
Every theory can be falsifiable in principle so I'm not sure why you're bothering to make the distinction.

The fact is, the no free will hypothesis is unfalsifiable in the only sense that matters and that disappoints me.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #361 on: June 04, 2012, 02:18 AM »
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Every theory can be falsifiable in principle so I'm not sure why you're bothering to make the distinction.

The fact is, the no free will hypothesis is unfalsifiable in the only sense that matters and that disappoints me.

Well, no. Not every theory can be falsifiable in principle. The God hypothesis is not falsifiable in any sense.

I'm sorry it disappoints you, but that's all I've got for you.
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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #362 on: June 04, 2012, 02:26 AM »
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The God hypothesis is not falsifiable in any sense.
I'd like to know what the religious would say if it was proven that the universe had no beginning.

How about instead I say every theory involving the world as we know it can be falsified in principle - that allows for the point I was making to remain valid.
[ Last edit by Mark June 04, 2012, 02:35 AM ] IP Logged
Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #363 on: June 04, 2012, 02:36 AM »
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I'd like to know what the religious would say if it was proven that the universe had no beginning.

How about instead I say every theory involving the world as we know it can be falsified in principle - that allows for the point I was making to remain valid.

But that isn't true. I just gave you an example of something that isn't falsifiable in principle. Try again.
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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #364 on: June 04, 2012, 02:37 AM »
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But that isn't true. I just gave you an example of something that isn't falsifiable in principle. Try again.
You were cheeky bringing out the God card... I can still make my point and limit it to the world as we know it.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #365 on: June 04, 2012, 02:43 AM »
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You were cheeky bringing out the God card... I can still make my point and limit it to the world as we know it.

Ok, we don't believe fairies exist. That isn't falsifiable.
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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #366 on: June 04, 2012, 02:50 AM »
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Ok, we don't believe fairies exist. That isn't falsifiable.
Oh come on, that's exactly the same as the God card. You know what I meant when I said a worldly theory.

Anyway, the fact you are having to make these low blows gives credence to the point I was making - it was not worth making the distinction that you did and as a consequence it came across as sidetracking.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #367 on: June 04, 2012, 02:54 AM »
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Oh come on, that's exactly the same as the God card. You know what I meant when I said a worldly theory.

Anyway, the fact you are having to make these low blows gives credence to the point I was making - it was pointless making the distinction you did and frankly was sidetracking.

What low blows? We 'know' fairies don't exist, don't we? It's considered something we know, yet isn't falsifiable.

You cannot just narrow the field of knowledge until it suits your point. I know that I exist, yet there's no way for me to falsify that claim. There are all sorts of things that we know that cannot be falsified.
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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #368 on: June 04, 2012, 03:02 AM »
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I think you're being unfair by using the supernatural here and you know it. The fact is you countering the claim that the no free will hypothesis is unfalsifiable by saying "oh but it is in principle" adds absolutely nothing of substance to its defence.
[ Last edit by Mark June 04, 2012, 03:08 AM ] IP Logged
Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #369 on: June 04, 2012, 03:06 AM »
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I think you're being unfair by using the supernatural here and you know it. The fact is you countering the claim that the no free will hypnosis is unfalsifiable by saying "oh but it is in principle" adds absolutely nothing of substance to its defence.

Of course you think I'm being unfair. It's inconvenient to the point you're trying to make.

No idea what hypnosis has to do with anything.
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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #370 on: June 04, 2012, 03:08 AM »
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Hypothesis. Chrome doing a great job at correcting my typos I see.

But yes, it is inconvenient to the point I was making but you using the supernatural to show the exceptions of my point doesn't take away much weight from it. I'll leave it to others to decide whether you going to the effort of making the distinction earlier was done because you sincerely thought it added substance to the discussion or whether it was to sidetrack from the fact your hypothosis is unfalsifiable in the only sense people care about.
[ Last edit by Mark June 04, 2012, 03:17 AM ] IP Logged
Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #371 on: June 04, 2012, 03:19 AM »
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Hypothesis. Chrome doing a great job at correcting my typos I see.

But yes, it is inconvenient to the point I was making but you using the supernatural to show the exceptions of my point doesn't take away much weight from it. I'll leave it to others to decide whether you going to the effort of making the distinction earlier was done because you sincerely thought it added substance to the discussion or whether it was to sidetrack from the fact your hypothosis is unfalsifiable in the only sense people care about.

I think we're beating a dead horse here. I'm not sure how much more there is to say at this point. I've laid out the argument and made my point.
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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #372 on: June 04, 2012, 03:19 AM »
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Agreed. Off to bed now.
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scotnadian
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You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Free will « Reply #373 on: June 04, 2012, 06:12 AM »
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Ok, Strider, let's play your game just to prove a point. I want you to choose something that you think we know for certain. You have the freedom to choose anything we currently believe to be true. I'll act as devil's advocate and I'll play the kind of game you're playing and maybe you'll understand how unreasonable your approach to this discussion is.
Andy Murray deserves to win a slam.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #374 on: June 04, 2012, 01:59 PM »
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Andy Murray deserves to win a slam.

Not quite what I meant. That's a belief, not something we would consider current knowledge. Very Happy
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