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Free will

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Iluvandy
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Re: Free will « Reply #465 on: March 09, 2013, 11:30 PM »
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He said he didn't understand. Had nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing.

I'm so sorry to be so stupid.   I thought he was actually having the temerity to disagree with you.  In fact I am so stupid I still believe he is disagreeing with you.    Please don't blame me.    It must be the fault of my genes and/or environment.
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Re: Free will « Reply #466 on: March 09, 2013, 11:33 PM »
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Seriously, I don't even know what to say, this has been somewhat enlightening. I guess Poe's Law really is incredibly effective, I thought I had given enough indication within my post on evidence and it would eventually add up but apparently not.

I think there is definitely a case for saying that - like those arguing from an illogical base, those actually arguing from a logical perspective also largely pick and choose what they they want to hear and on a whole largely band religious/spiritual people's viewpoints into a convenient box together. I guess thinking about it I naturally do that myself and probably fall victim to Poe's Law just as easily as most if arguing in favour of a subject.

Funnily I found it rather easy to get into an illogical head-space, but reaffirming it under scrutiny wasn't actually so easy. What I found most interesting was that I actually felt quite a negative emotion upon reading personal attacks against me, then almost instinctively I felt the need to find a way to defend my position but not as a method of convincing my persecutor but for that of reassuring myself. I remember distinctively putting a smilie after one of my comebacks and I was definitely using this a mechanism to reassure myself of what I was saying not for adding sentiment to my post.

I watched not long ago a documentary by Louis Theroux talking to people of the Westboro Baptist Church and I recall that the girls he talked to were just always smiling. I wondered if this was some sort of front to opposition, or if they were perhaps just always happy being fully contempt in what they believe but I think a more likely explanation is due having such an extreme viewpoint and being constantly under attack by everybody they must need to have a very strong positive recoil assuring themselves that what they believe is morally correct and justified. I imagine growing up with it, it must just become a 2nd nature to them.
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robbie
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Re: Free will « Reply #467 on: March 09, 2013, 11:34 PM »
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Finishing my Master degrees.
As in the past, if you need any help, I'm here.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #468 on: March 09, 2013, 11:35 PM »
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I'm so sorry to be so stupid.   I thought he was actually having the temerity to disagree with you.  In fact I am so stupid I still believe he is disagreeing with you.    Please don't blame me.    It must be the fault of my genes and/or environment.

Didn't you read his reply? He said he didn't understand. He might be disagreeing, but he's disagreeing with an argument he, by his own admission, doesn't understand.

If you understand the argument and have a counter-argument, by all means post it.
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Fiverings
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Re: Free will « Reply #469 on: March 09, 2013, 11:37 PM »
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And you still haven't given me an example of a choice you could make that would suggest you have free will.

  OK. Usually when I pick up a restaurant menu  and choose a dish I'm exercising free will.  Prove that I'm not.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #470 on: March 09, 2013, 11:39 PM »
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  OK. Usually when I pick up a restaurant menu  and choose a dish I'm exercising free will.  Prove that I'm not.

Ok, let's go with that. Do you choose which restaurants you like? Do you choose which food tastes good to you?
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Iluvandy
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Re: Free will « Reply #471 on: March 10, 2013, 12:01 AM »
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Didn't you read his reply? He said he didn't understand. He might be disagreeing, but he's disagreeing with an argument he, by his own admission, doesn't understand.

If you understand the argument and have a counter-argument, by all means post it.

I'm not interested enough Clydey because I doubt if it can be proved that free will exists or doesn't exist.    I know what I believe and feel and I do know that choice is not the same thing as free will but I don't see the point of choice if I have no free will.    It would be a bit like having a passport and the desire to travel but no money.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #472 on: March 10, 2013, 12:02 AM »
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As in the past, if you need any help, I'm here.

You're too kind, Robbie.
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Re: Free will « Reply #473 on: March 10, 2013, 12:02 AM »
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As for the actual subject topic here of free will I don't really much care about it. I don't see free will as existing, I don't think you can particularly define 'free will' since it relies on this notion of 'I' which is completely abstract.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #474 on: March 10, 2013, 12:04 AM »
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I'm not interested enough Clydey because I doubt if it can be proved that free will exists or doesn't exist.    I know what I believe and feel and I do know that choice is not the same thing as free will but I don't see the point of choice if I have no free will.    It would be a bit like having a passport and the desire to travel but no money.


It can and has been proven that free will doesn't exist. And who says there has to be a point? You're talking as though everything has to have a purpose.
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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #475 on: March 10, 2013, 12:06 AM »
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It can and has been proven that free will doesn't exist.
The actual scientific experiment I think you're referring to is controversial.
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #476 on: March 10, 2013, 12:11 AM »
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The actual scientific experiment I think you're referring to is controversial.

Some dispute the interpretation of the results, yes. That statement you quoted was in reference to the logical argument, though.

The only point of contention in the debate is whether free will is disproven if determinism is true. No one of note actually thinks determinism is false, though. Instead, they try to redefine free will in order to assert that it exists.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Free will « Reply #477 on: March 10, 2013, 12:11 AM »
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It can and has been proven that free will doesn't exist. And who says there has to be a point? You're talking as though everything has to have a purpose.

No one has proved it to me.    So I'll plod on happy in my ignorance.
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Re: Free will « Reply #478 on: March 10, 2013, 12:13 AM »
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Like I said how do you actually define free will?
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Clydey
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Re: Free will « Reply #479 on: March 10, 2013, 12:16 AM »
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Like I said how do you actually define free will?

It's not a well defined concept, but the conventional notion is that we are the authors of our own actions.

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