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Free will

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Emma Jean
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Re: Free will « Reply #645 on: March 12, 2013, 07:04 PM »
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You can call it God if you like but don't think that it cares about you and is going to send you to heaven Very Happy

I don't call it anything. I just know it's the highest conscious being (we might just be the lowest conscious beings or at least one of the few) that has always existed in the form of nothing (which was actually something) at first and will go back to its first state again to restart everything again, but perhaps to create something very different than this Universe. It was aware of itself just like us since we are part of it as well. It knew everything about itself of course but we never know who we are until we create and experience what we are not.  So it had to create that, it was not, simply to experience its own self. Anyway, I wouldn’t call it or limit it to ‘logic’ only. It’s an idea, a mind, a thought that consists of all probabilities and possibilities. In other words, it's creative by its nature.

As to Heaven, well, let me tell you first, all my questions to you were not to learn something from you but to find out how much you know and in what form. Now I have a clear-cut idea.

Going back to the concept of Hell and Heaven – these are still concepts and don’t exist in the real sense (this Universe doesn’t exist in the real sense either as it itself an illusion). But since we are part of this very conscious being, we can also create things from our thoughts (that’s why wise people say thoughts are very powerful, as in order to create something… anything, an idea or thought has to exist first. You won’t be able to create a building unless you think about it first (reason why animals can’t create/build anything of higher conscious since they are not even aware of it). Religious beliefs are extremely of metaphorical nature that we tend to take literally. Basically it comes down to this, you will experience that concept (hell or heaven or any other experience) that you hold in your very core belief system. So if you don’t believe in anything, you will be thrown into pure void and darkness but still with the knowledge of your own existence. And the opposite is true. But there are other experiences as well but they all go back to one’s core belief system. And if do you get lost in the deep dark void, the only way to get out of it is to deny its existence and change your belief system, since you are the one who created it in the first place. You can't simply deny who you are no matter what you want to experience and that alone will set you free...eventually. 

But we are still very much in the primitive state of consciousness so it will take us a few hundred years to get there. To get to the ultimate truth or reality whatever you want to call it. But the consciousness itself is evolving all the time, so it will take us a long time just to catch up unless there's a sudden shift of paradigm – who knows.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Free will « Reply #646 on: March 12, 2013, 07:09 PM »
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An extract from the brilliant book 'Everything Forever' by Gevin Giorbran. Which is one I definitely advise reading.

The Real Nothing

Imagine you are standing in a white world, like the commercials or movies portraying heaven. In this world there is nothing but white everywhere. The oneness of white extends away from you in every direction. You try to look out into the distance, but because there is just the one color you can’t tell if the space of this world extends out forever or if its edge remains just out of reach. As you reach out your hand, you realize that your physical body provides the only sense of distance here. Your body is all that exists in a giant field of nothingness. There is no length or width beyond your body. There is no distance to anywhere else, because there isn’t anything else to measure a distance to. So if your body happens also to turn white, then suddenly all sense of dimension is erased. The very meaning of place and distance is lost. Soon even the one color of white will disappear from your experience. You will soon become blind to white, because you don’t have any other color to judge the meaning of this one color against. Soon, for you, this endless white world becomes nothing at all.

First of all, there was never a white world/space but only darkness – void if you will. Light or white came later.

Second, the colour white is the presence of all colours and darkness is the absence of all colours.

And also, what you are referring is the non-locality of the greatest consciousness. It is nowhere and yet, it is everywhere. It is nothing and yet, it is everything.
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Mark
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Re: Free will « Reply #647 on: March 12, 2013, 07:13 PM »
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Our consciousness arises and subsides in intrinsic space time events.
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laundry
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Re: Free will « Reply #648 on: March 12, 2013, 07:22 PM »
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First of all, there was never a white world/space but only darkness – void if you will. Light or white came later.

Second, the colour white is the presence of all colours and darkness is the absence of all colours.

And also, what you are referring is the non-locality of the greatest consciousness. It is nowhere and yet, it is everywhere. It is nothing and yet, it is everything.

I never said it existed, I do not think for a second that real nothingness can exist and neither did the author. It is merely a mental exercise in aid to imaginary conceptualize nothingness.
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Re: Free will « Reply #649 on: March 12, 2013, 07:36 PM »
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I'm not going to respond to what you put after you started talking about heaven and hell as I do not really care about any of that but this:

I don't call it anything. I just know it's the highest conscious being (we might just be the lowest conscious beings or at least one of the few) that has always existed in the form of nothing (which was actually something) at first and will go back to its first state again to restart everything again, but perhaps to create something very different than this Universe. It was aware of itself just like us since we are part of it as well. It knew everything about itself of course but we never know who we are until we create and experience what we are not.  So it had to create that, it was not, simply to experience its own self. Anyway, I wouldn’t call it or limit it to ‘logic’ only. It’s an idea, a mind, a thought that consists of all probabilities and possibilities. In other words, it's creative by its nature.
Funnily enough is a rather similar line of thought to the one that I take. Although it seems like you are interpreting and mixing in concepts with it that I would not, specifically that pertaining to conciousness and being self-aware.

This part though particularly:
Quote
It’s a thought that consists of all probabilities and possibilities
I concur on.

I guess I will go further into my thought, up to now I have only stated things that are logically obvious, this then is open to scrutiny.

Given that all actualities result from a deterministic logic, surely it follows that all possible outcomes are determined to exist. This is really how I view the entire of existence, simply as an 'image' reflecting every single possible outcome*. It exists because it has to exist, because it's possible for it to exist from a logical consistent base (however that's managed to be achieved) and as such determinism actualizes these possibilities. I go further to say that these possibilities are always possible and as such they are always existing timelessly, everything possible is always in existence. Our conciousness forces us to only perceive individual moments, the moment at which that conscious state is residing but  in reality what we consider the past and what we consider the future has already been determined and as such is always existing.

*The many-worlds theory is now a very common interpretation of what we observe in quantum mechanics, so much so that it's practically assumed in a lot of scientific circles. The many-worlds theory states that every possible quantum outcome branches off to into a different universe so in fact not just one possible outcome occurs but every possible outcome occurs, just in a separate universe. This in my view is a perfect explanation, and it's remarkable to think that we have been able to actually observe the mechanism in place that existence is using to destine every possibility.
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robbie
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Re: Free will « Reply #650 on: March 12, 2013, 07:39 PM »
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Not sure that there's not a lot of  google going on here. Think
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Re: Free will « Reply #651 on: March 13, 2013, 09:50 PM »
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Not sure that there's not a lot of  google going on here. Think
Works for me. yes
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Caz
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Re: Free will « Reply #652 on: March 14, 2013, 09:21 AM »
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Not sure that there's not a lot of  google going on here. Think
  fainting   And here was me thinkin' that these guys knew 'everything' about 'everything!   Whistle
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scotnadian
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Re: Free will « Reply #653 on: March 14, 2013, 03:02 PM »
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Definitely not me, Caz no

The only thing I'm sure about is, I'll never stop learning. yes
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Re: Free will « Reply #654 on: March 14, 2013, 04:44 PM »
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The man who knows not, and knows not that he knows not is a fool. Shun him.
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Emma Jean
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Re: Free will « Reply #655 on: March 14, 2013, 04:56 PM »
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Not sure that there's not a lot of  google going on here. Think

The most intelligent thing a person can do is to learn something new every day. You can learn from others or by googling or reading books/articles, or simply going to school or by doing all of them. It doesn't matter as long as you don't stop questioning and learning. No reason to still live in a cave or stay in denial when there’s so much information out there within one’s reach. They are all there for a very good reason. You don't shoot the messenger.

And the most unintelligent thing one can do is to make a mockery about someone else’s learning method.
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scotnadian
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Re: Free will « Reply #656 on: March 15, 2013, 02:14 AM »
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The man who knows not, and knows not that he knows not is a fool. Shun him.

I know that I know not, therefore I know what you know.
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scotnadian
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Re: Free will « Reply #657 on: March 15, 2013, 02:15 AM »
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And the most unintelligent thing one can do is to make a mockery about someone else’s learning method.

It would be a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of the Robbster.
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Caz
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Re: Free will « Reply #658 on: March 15, 2013, 11:19 AM »
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Definitely not me, Caz no

The only thing I'm sure about is, I'll never stop learning. yes
Nor me Scot, but I too feel that I learn something new every day!  Smile
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