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Jews, who are they?

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Mark
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #45 on: November 13, 2008, 12:50 PM »
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Yes, they can and they are considered a race. That's like saying black people can't be considered a race because they mix with non-blacks.

The Jews are a race. And it's not tough to tell if someone is Jewish by looking at them.

I'm clearly not the best person to argue on this hence the creation of this thread, I'll leave it to people like Yamor to agree to disagree with the opinions you have given.

You might be right, you might not... I'm not going to know Smile
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #46 on: November 13, 2008, 12:52 PM »
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I'm clearly not the best person to argue on this hence the creation of this thread, I'll leave it to people like Yamor to agree to disagree with the opinions you have given.

You might be right, you might not... I'm not going to know Smile


Its not about opinion. It's not an opinion if I say that black people are a different race to white people. It's a fact. The same applies to jews. They are as much a race as any other. I'm astounded that this has given rise to any sort of debate.
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Mark
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #47 on: November 13, 2008, 12:54 PM »
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All I know is, I started off thinking Jews were a race and then since reading this thread, have started to think that might not be the case any more.

I shall sit back and learn.
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #48 on: November 13, 2008, 12:55 PM »
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All I know is, I started off thinking Jews were a race and then since reading this thread, have started to think that might not be the case any more.

I shall sit back and learn.


It is the case. They are a race and it's a fact. If that was your initial thought, you were right.
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joanne
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #49 on: November 13, 2008, 12:59 PM »
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I like this definition on answers.com

Any person whose religion is Judaism. In a wider sense the term refers to any member of a worldwide ethnic and cultural group descended from the ancient Hebrews who traditionally practiced the Jewish religion. The Hebrew term Yehudi, translated as Judaeus in Latin and Jew in English, originally referred to a member of the tribe of Judah. In Jewish tradition, any child born of a Jewish mother is considered a Jew; in Reform Judaism a child is considered a Jew if either parent is Jewish.

also

a person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties
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Yamor
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #50 on: November 13, 2008, 01:13 PM »
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I don't think it's as simple as Clydey says. Most people would consider a convert to be a Jew. It basically depends on your definition of Jew, either a racial meaning or a religious meaning.
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #51 on: November 13, 2008, 01:17 PM »
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I don't think it's as simple as Clydey says. Most people would consider a convert to be a Jew. It basically depends on your definition of Jew, either a racial meaning or a religious meaning.


Yes, a convert to the religion. You cannot convert to the Jewish race, just as you can't become black by converting.

You are not distinguishing between being Jewish and subscribing to Judaism. They are not the same thing.
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Yamor
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #52 on: November 13, 2008, 01:20 PM »
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I understand the distinction. The question is, what does 'Jewish' mean - belonging to the race or to the religion. I think most people would consider it to mean adherents to the religion. Hence my earlier remarks that only most Jews are from the Jewish race, or sub-race.
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Elly
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #53 on: November 13, 2008, 01:21 PM »
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Last night I was just really frustrated that ellyb basically made out I was stupid for not knowing whether Jews were a race or not so I had to let that out on someone, poor Cate Smile

Sounds right to me!

Mark, I was not trying to make you feel stupd.  I was just surprised that you wanted a post that confirmed Judaism was a religion - that's all.  It is never my intention to make another person feel stupid.  I just have my opnions and voice them Shrug

This is a difficult question, but I tend to agree with Clydey.  I would consider Jews a race, but as Charlie said earlier, identity is made up of lots of components...   Think
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #54 on: November 13, 2008, 01:23 PM »
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I understand the distinction. The question is, what does 'Jewish' mean - belonging to the race or to the religion. I think most people would consider it to mean adherents to the religion. Hence my earlier remarks that only most Jews are from the Jewish race, or sub-race.


You're still not getting it.

It can mean both. You simply have to distinguish between the two. It's the same word, but it can mean two separate things. You dont have to choose one.

It means both.
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #55 on: November 13, 2008, 01:25 PM »
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Here's a dictionary definition of the word "Jewish". As you can see, it does not mean one or the other.

Jewish: "Of or relating to the Jews or their culture or religion."

Jewish: "of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Jews or Judaism."
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Mark
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #56 on: November 13, 2008, 01:28 PM »
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I was just surprised that you wanted a post that confirmed Judaism was a religion - that's all.
Seems you just misunderstood my post then because I was not asking that, I already know Judaism is a religion.

I asked about "Jews", not Judaism.


Any chance of quoting the post where it was established that Jews are technically a race?

Mark...... you should know that!  You shouldn't need a post... no Judaism is a religion.
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Yamor
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #57 on: November 13, 2008, 01:29 PM »
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Yes, I do understand. There's a 'Jewish race' and a 'Jewish religion'. You can be one, or the other, or both. I never, and I don't think anyone disagreed. However, most people when refering to Jews, are refering to the religion, not the race. However, even in that case, most adherents to Judaism are from the Jewish race. Which is all I've said in this thread.
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joanne
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #58 on: November 13, 2008, 01:29 PM »
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Judaism is unusual in that it is used to describe the characteristics of a race or nation as well as a religion.  Because the dictates of jewish beliefs and laws led them to isolate themselves from 'gentiles' it also led to Judaism being a culture.  

I guess we will be arguing for ever on whether a jew is a member of a race or a religion it all depends on what aproach you use when  you identify a person either from a religious or national point of view.  Neither is right or wrong it is all a matter of opinion.  It is a subject that has raged for Centuries and will for many years to come.
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Elly
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #59 on: November 13, 2008, 01:29 PM »
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Here's a dictionary definition of the word "Jewish". As you can see, it does not mean one or the other.

Jewish: "Of or relating to the Jews or their culture or religion."

Jewish: "of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Jews or Judaism."

So really people can perceive Jews or Jewishness differently?
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