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Jews, who are they?

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Elly
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #60 on: November 13, 2008, 01:31 PM »
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Seems like there was some misunderstanding then because I was not asking that, I already know Judaism is a religion.

I asked about "The Jews", not Judaism.

Fair enough.  Then I misunderstood.
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #61 on: November 13, 2008, 01:33 PM »
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So really people can perceive Jews or Jewishness differently?


No, it is defined as both. It's an ambiguous word.

The Jews are a race. That is a fact. Judaism is a religion. That is a fact.

One word is used for both. That is where the confusion comes from. However, no one should be in any doubt that the Jews are also a race.
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Elly
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #62 on: November 13, 2008, 01:34 PM »
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No, it is defined as both. It's an ambiguous word.

The Jews are a race. That is a fact. Judaism is a religion. That is a fact.

One word is used for both. That is where the confusion comes from. However, no one should be in any doubt that the Jews are also a race.

Ah... I see...  that makes a lot of sense.
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Yamor
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #63 on: November 13, 2008, 01:35 PM »
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Or, at least most Jews (using the most usual sense of the word - i.e. religion) are a separate race.
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #64 on: November 13, 2008, 01:35 PM »
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Ah... I see...  that makes a lot of sense.


You being sarcastic or do you get it?
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Elly
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #65 on: November 13, 2008, 01:36 PM »
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You being sarcastic or do you get it?

No.... am not being sarcastic at all, and yes I get it... you explained it well!
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #66 on: November 13, 2008, 01:38 PM »
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Or, at least most Jews (using the most usual sense of the word - i.e. religion) are a separate race.


No, the Jews are a separate race. You are still not distinguishing between the two definitions.

If you say "Most Jews are a separate race" you are using the the word specifically to describe Judaism. It is just as correct to say that ALL Jews are a separate race, since the word also refers to the Jewish race.
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #67 on: November 13, 2008, 01:38 PM »
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No.... am not being sarcastic at all, and yes I get it... you explained it well!


lol Thank you.
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Elly
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #68 on: November 13, 2008, 01:39 PM »
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So... Yamor is sort of splitting the one race definition into sub races?  Is that correct?
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #69 on: November 13, 2008, 01:41 PM »
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So... Yamor is sort of splitting the one race definition into sub races?  Is that correct?


He seems to think that "Jewish" refers more to the religion than to the race. Neither is the dominant definition. It is up to the person using the word to make the distinction.
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Mark
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #70 on: November 13, 2008, 01:42 PM »
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He seems to think that "Jewish" refers more to the religion than to the race. Neither is the dominant definition. It is up to the person using the word to make the distinction.
Although technically that's true, I would say from a social perspective, Yamor is right with religion being the dominate meaning purely based on its common usage rather than it being correct or not.

Clearly for accuracy people need to use the word that holds a single definition rather than a word that mixes two together.
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Elly
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #71 on: November 13, 2008, 01:43 PM »
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He seems to think that "Jewish" refers more to the religion than to the race. Neither is the dominant definition. It is up to the person using the word to make the distinction.

So are you saying the definition is subjective?  (And don't shout at me for using the S word!)
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Yamor
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #72 on: November 13, 2008, 01:43 PM »
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No no no. All i'm saying is that the people referred to any most people when saying Jews are only mostly from a separate race. I don't think you're understanding me Clydey. I'm not talking about the definition of the word, just the people most people are referring to when they say 'Jew'.
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Clydey
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #73 on: November 13, 2008, 01:44 PM »
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Although technically that's true, I would say from a social perspective, Yamor is right with religion being the dominate meaning purely based on its common usage rather than it being correct or not.


Yeah, that's different.

It still isn't correct to say that "most Jews are a separate race."

If you want to say that, you have to specifiy which definition of "Jewish" you are using.
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Mark
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Re: Jews, who are they? « Reply #74 on: November 13, 2008, 01:45 PM »
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Yeah, that's different.

It still isn't correct to say that "most Jews are a separate race."

If you want to say that, you have to specifiy which definition of "Jewish" you are using.
Yes absolutely agree. It just seems, based on its common usage in today's language, religion is the dominate definition even though technically it shouldn't be. This is probably the reason for all this confusion on the subject.
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