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UK riots

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eira_arian
John McEnroe
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Re: UK riots « Reply #270 on: August 13, 2011, 05:49 PM »
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State schools are perfectly fine. Education is very much down to the individual. All that is needed is a personal quest for knowledge. One of our members went to Oxford from a state school. It just takes hard work, not a silver spoon.

I thank you Wink
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Caz
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Re: UK riots « Reply #271 on: August 13, 2011, 06:19 PM »
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Aww.... Eira! Well done you!
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Re: UK riots « Reply #272 on: August 13, 2011, 06:19 PM »
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This is starting to sound like a famous Monty Python sketch.


Havent seen that in ages brilliant stuff.
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eira_arian
John McEnroe
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Re: UK riots « Reply #273 on: August 13, 2011, 06:23 PM »
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Aww.... Eira! Well done you!

Lol, thanks. I should point out that I went to an excellent state school and Oxbridge entry is a lot about luck Smile
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Caz
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Re: UK riots « Reply #274 on: August 13, 2011, 06:27 PM »
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A little luck [maybe] and a huge amount of hard work! clap
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Re: UK riots « Reply #275 on: August 13, 2011, 06:41 PM »
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yes


If they were perfectly fine a lot more than one would be going to Oxford. Surely you're not suggesting that the education standards are as good at a state school as a private school - all the results and data say exactly the opposite and the reason is purely market forces -  if the parents are paying they make it their business to make sure the product is good. If its free then expectations and demands are lower. Im sure the sensible thing is for all parents (who can) to pay a few hundred a year per child and get rid of all the different types of school. Small local schools in every town, city and village all with small classes. We could bring in lots of young presently unemployed graduates working with experienced and dedicated teachers sharing their knowledge. Keep the churches and the politicians, especially the local authorities and the school boards out of it - they have tried and failed a generation. The two groups who should be involved but rarely are- employers and universities - should decide the syllabus based on international economic indicators. Im getting carried away now.
 
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eira_arian
John McEnroe
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Re: UK riots « Reply #276 on: August 13, 2011, 06:56 PM »
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Without wishing to make a twat of myself, not everyone in a year from a single school can go to Oxford...6 went from my school, fyi.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: UK riots « Reply #277 on: August 13, 2011, 08:32 PM »
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I very much doubt that luck had much to do with it. I remember reading some time ago that pupil who went to state shcools and had good qualifications was rejected for admission as she did not have the social skills (whatever that means) but was accepted by cambridge. It is very difficult to gain entrance to the blue ribbon universities. Perhaps its not what you know but who you know.
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top_spin
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Re: UK riots « Reply #278 on: August 13, 2011, 08:41 PM »
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What is this rot about subsidies. Are you suggesting that we should get down on our knees and thank the upper class for our educational system. They because they have plenty of money can afford to send their children to private schools. My son went to university and my daughter is there just now and goes into her third year at the beginning of September.  My children are the first in my family to go to university. I dont feel I owe anyone anthing. They got there through hard work. From what I see you are saying that areas that have a high proportion of immigrants have poor schooling.  If this government does not take action in its housing policy to ensure this is not allowed to happen. There should be an equal racial mix with equal opportunities in education. If the current situation continues the same think will happen again. Young people will feel that they are worthless with not future to look forward to. An ever increasing spiral downwards and no pospects of a descent life or good job.

Do you not think that parents are to blame for raising kids with a lack of drive for work?

Your private school stereotypes are completely absured.  Most high earners have worked hard to achieve what they have and deserve to spend their money how they wish.  I spent 13 years in such a schooling system and I never really saw anyone's parents, both mum and dad were always at work! My dad was abroad for 6 months at a time to fund one kid... It's those who seek £30,000 in benefits for their 10 children that need a reality check.
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eira_arian
John McEnroe
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Re: UK riots « Reply #279 on: August 13, 2011, 09:24 PM »
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I very much doubt that luck had much to do with it. I remember reading some time ago that pupil who went to state shcools and had good qualifications was rejected for admission as she did not have the social skills (whatever that means) but was accepted by cambridge. It is very difficult to gain entrance to the blue ribbon universities. Perhaps its not what you know but who you know.

I don't know anyone in my group of friends from uni that used - or indeed even had any connections they could use - to get in.
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Hazybear
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Re: UK riots « Reply #280 on: August 13, 2011, 10:30 PM »
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I don't know anyone in my group of friends from uni that used - or indeed even had any connections they could use - to get in.

I wouldn't bother bringing fact or reality to a conversation where some people on this thread can go on about social inequality (yeah because none of us noticed that!), and how most of the people that say anything that disagrees with their views must be right wing, middle class and bigoted against the put upon hard-toiling, working class.
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Bevc
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Re: UK riots « Reply #281 on: August 13, 2011, 10:37 PM »
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If they were perfectly fine a lot more than one would be going to Oxford. Surely you're not suggesting that the education standards are as good at a state school as a private school - all the results and data say exactly the opposite and the reason is purely market forces -  if the parents are paying they make it their business to make sure the product is good. If its free then expectations and demands are lower. Im sure the sensible thing is for all parents (who can) to pay a few hundred a year per child and get rid of all the different types of school. Small local schools in every town, city and village all with small classes. We could bring in lots of young presently unemployed graduates working with experienced and dedicated teachers sharing their knowledge. Keep the churches and the politicians, especially the local authorities and the school boards out of it - they have tried and failed a generation. The two groups who should be involved but rarely are- employers and universities - should decide the syllabus based on international economic indicators. Im getting carried away now.  

What I was saying that the opportunity is there to be educated and not everyone will want to go to Oxford or university for that matter. My youngest knows that she doesn't want to go to uni and in fact she has no idea what she wants to do when she finishes school in a few months time but at least she has a part-time job that gives her some income. I didn't go to one of the best schools in my area but I knew what I needed to achieve to get on my higher education course to help me achieve my goal of getting a job in an office and I attended night school to get more qualifications.

I'm not saying that schools aren't without their problems and that the latest austerity measures by the government have affected certain schools in some areas.

Some responsibility for the lawlessness that we have witnessed this past week also lays with the families of those involved - it's not hard to teach your kids what's right and wrong - and those that were adults should know better! It was just too easy for a lot to take advantage with little chance of being caught.
[ Last edit by Bevc August 14, 2011, 12:40 AM ] IP Logged
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Re: UK riots « Reply #282 on: August 13, 2011, 11:08 PM »
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I very much doubt that luck had much to do with it. I remember reading some time ago that pupil who went to state shcools and had good qualifications was rejected for admission as she did not have the social skills (whatever that means) but was accepted by cambridge. It is very difficult to gain entrance to the blue ribbon universities. Perhaps its not what you know but who you know.

In fact quite a few universities are now exercising positive discrimination against privately educated pupils. Edinburgh University for example have this year taken several medical students from state schools with  5As or less and rejected most of the 6A students from private schools. The argument presumably is that our state schools are so useless in Scotland that those getting good Highers there must be outstanding students. This is trying to level the playing field too late and unfairly. The politicians should be looking to improve our state schools so that nobody feels the need to pay for private schools or they should just have the courage to abolish them or at the very least remove their "charitable"  tax status.
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top_spin
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Re: UK riots « Reply #283 on: August 13, 2011, 11:23 PM »
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In fact quite a few universities are now exercising positive discrimination against privately educated pupils. Edinburgh University for example have this year taken several medical students from state schools with  5As or less and rejected most of the 6A students from private schools. The argument presumably is that our state schools are so useless in Scotland that those getting good Highers there must be outstanding students. This is trying to level the playing field too late and unfairly. The politicians should be looking to improve our state schools so that nobody feels the need to pay for private schools or they should just have the courage to abolish them or at the very least remove their "charitable"  tax status.

Indeed, most universities can only take in a certain percentage of privately educated students.

How is it positive discrimination? My parents paid their last pennies to send me to school and I didn't get into Edinburgh even though I matched their Bs offer with As and an extra A-Level on top of that.  Then again, no one in my school got into Edinburgh but plenty went to Oxford and Cambridge so you start to wonder if that's discrimination against the English...
[ Last edit by top_spin August 13, 2011, 11:33 PM ] IP Logged
Bevc
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Re: UK riots « Reply #284 on: August 14, 2011, 12:50 AM »
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I wonder how many university places are put aside for international students?  This is where they make their money.

Just google some stats for Oxford and interesting reading:-

There are over 21,000 students at Oxford, including 11,723 undergraduates and 9,327 postgraduates.

The majority of Oxford’s UK undergraduates come from state schools. Latest figures (entry 2010) show that, for UK students attending schools or colleges in the UK, 55.4 per cent of places on undergraduate courses went to applicants from the state sector, and 44.6 per cent went to applicants from the independent sector.

Overall, 61 per cent of Oxford’s current graduate students come from outside the UK.

Over a third of our total student body - nearly 8,000 students - are citizens of foreign countries, including 15 per cent of undergraduates and 61 per cent of graduate students.

Think

http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/index.html
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