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UK riots

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Ruthie
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Re: London riots « Reply #60 on: August 09, 2011, 09:17 AM »
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Categorising these people as "yobs" and "morons" is no use whatsoever. We have to understand where this anger and contempt is coming from. If people feel they have no stake/no place in our society they will behave like this. What have people who feel marginalised got to lose?
Society/law/ order/policing only works if we, the people, are in agreement with it.
And I'm afraid locking everyone up won't work either. We already imprison more than any other European country and our prisons are bursting at the seams.
We used to send young men to war, now we send them to prison.

Well said bbh.  This is not to condone what is happening - destroying the livelihoods of people in your own community makes no sense and putting people's lives in danger cannot be justified.   But surely it is no coincidence that this has happened at a time when many young people increasingly feel they have no future and their present lives are suffering because of cuts, which are disproportionately affecting people on low incomes and services for young people.  While they see the good life carrying on as usual for the rich and powerful.  It's impossible to say how many are simply opportunistic criminals.  But people have been speculating for a while as to why there haven't been riots. Well now they've come and with a vengeance and not just in London.  Dismissing the rioters as animals doesn't get us anywhere.  (Incidentally watching a programme on key thinkers the other day, reminded me of Desmond Morris' point that we are all animals!)
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Bevc
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Re: London riots « Reply #61 on: August 09, 2011, 09:40 AM »
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From the beeb's live reporting on their website:-

0924:

Kids Company founder Camila Batmanghelidjh argues for more youth services in the Independent. "It costs money to care. But it also costs money to clear up riots, savagery and antisocial behaviour. I leave it to you to do the financial and moral sums."

Well Camila, they have some mess to clean up now, so they'd best get on to it!  No excuses they have nothing to do.
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Hazybear
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Re: London riots « Reply #62 on: August 09, 2011, 10:46 AM »
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Categorising these people as "yobs" and "morons" is no use whatsoever. We have to understand where this anger and contempt is coming from. If people feel they have no stake/no place in our society they will behave like this. What have people who feel marginalised got to lose?
Society/law/ order/policing only works if we, the people, are in agreement with it.
And I'm afraid locking everyone up won't work either. We already imprison more than any other European country and our prisons are bursting at the seams.
We used to send young men to war, now we send them to prison.

No I categorise them as criminals, vandals and arsonists. This isn't really about any particular feeling they have against the system, cuts etc. Last night especially was about 'we can'. We can get away with it. The police are outnumbered to stop us, our parents aren't stopping us. We can do this. So many reporters were saying that these groups were laughing and finding it a game and a lark. One reporter said that it had all been euphoric excitement that they were getting away with looting and vandalism till the building went up at Clapham junction and then you saw them realise that this was real.

Don't keep trying to put your own poitical views and understanding on these people. Yeah there's anger and all that, but a mob works at the intelligence level of the mass-and if this had been more political then they would have targetted more actual police stations and local council buildings etc. They've targeted shops and businesses because the want to steal.
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boogers
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Re: London riots « Reply #63 on: August 09, 2011, 11:36 AM »
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Any sympathy I had for their social, economic or political disenfranchisement vanished when they started destroying property and livelihoods.

Setting fire to your local family owned florist? Way to stick it to the man, you ******* *****.
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Mark
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Re: London riots « Reply #64 on: August 09, 2011, 11:43 AM »
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I'm pissed off right now that the Army isn't being called out tonight. I know it's a big step but an increase in police does what? The videos I saw clearly show the police need weapons to fight back, not more numbers with some pathetic sheilds.

Bring out the army, bring out the guns and shoot these disgusting animals.
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Hazybear
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Re: London riots « Reply #65 on: August 09, 2011, 11:47 AM »
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I'm pissed off right now that the Army isn't being called out tonight. I know it's a big step but an increase in police does what? The videos I saw clearly show the police need weapons to fight back, not more numbers with some pathetic sheilds.

Bring out the army, bring out the guns and shoot these disgusting animals.

It might get to that. But if the government okays that then they really are allowing for rioters being killed and I don't think they want to risk it and the backlash that would come from that-we are a media fickle society.
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Mark
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Re: London riots « Reply #66 on: August 09, 2011, 11:52 AM »
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Apparently we don't have enough military here but all I ask is a few of them come alongside the riot police... if the rioters saw a few guns on the other side, it would hopefully make an impact.

But the army to one side, water cannons should have been used by now.
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Quackers
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Re: London riots « Reply #67 on: August 09, 2011, 11:54 AM »
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What is a water cannon?  They defo need to be using force, if these people are willing to cause trouble they should be prepared for the consequence.
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Mark
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Re: London riots « Reply #68 on: August 09, 2011, 11:57 AM »
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It's a vehicle that has a hose that sprays water at rioters with great force. Pushes them back and probably hurts them as well.

They have no problem using it in Northern Ireland.
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Hazybear
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Re: London riots « Reply #69 on: August 09, 2011, 12:04 PM »
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It's a vehicle that has a hose that sprays water at rioters with great force. Pushes them back and probably hurts them as well.

They have no problem using it in Northern Ireland.

Only really works properly though if you have a condensed crowd of people though, as in when they charge the police. A further problem is that there have been a lt of bystanders on the streets the last few nights. People out because they want to see what's happening; people worried about their homes and businesses; the reporters etc. A water cannon is going to hit them all if they're in the way, whether they are a rioter or not.
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Mark
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Re: London riots « Reply #70 on: August 09, 2011, 12:05 PM »
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See the video I posted earlier, water cannon would have been perfect to give the police a bit more time to retreat. But I admit, it's no great weapon in general.

Amazing video.


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MT
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Re: London riots « Reply #71 on: August 09, 2011, 12:10 PM »
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No I categorise them as criminals, vandals and arsonists. This isn't really about any particular feeling they have against the system, cuts etc. Last night especially was about 'we can'. We can get away with it. The police are outnumbered to stop us, our parents aren't stopping us. We can do this. So many reporters were saying that these groups were laughing and finding it a game and a lark. One reporter said that it had all been euphoric excitement that they were getting away with looting and vandalism till the building went up at Clapham junction and then you saw them realise that this was real.

Don't keep trying to put your own poitical views and understanding on these people. Yeah there's anger and all that, but a mob works at the intelligence level of the mass-and if this had been more political then they would have targetted more actual police stations and local council buildings etc. They've targeted shops and businesses because the want to steal.
There will be anti capitalist anarchist movements involved at some level with this.
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Caz
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Re: London riots « Reply #72 on: August 09, 2011, 12:21 PM »
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Any sympathy I had for their social, economic or political disenfranchisement vanished when they started destroying property and livelihoods.

Setting fire to your local family owned florist? Way to stick it to the man, you f**king c**ts.
I second that!
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Hazybear
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Re: London riots « Reply #73 on: August 09, 2011, 12:25 PM »
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There will be anti capitalist anarchist movements involved at some level with this.

No organised groups are claiming any involement and they would be if they had anything to do with it. These youths aren't listening to anyone who they see as an authority figure. They're hating anything and everything and just want to hurt people.
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Mark
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Re: London riots « Reply #74 on: August 09, 2011, 12:39 PM »
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Some impressive footage on Sky News from hidden cameras within the crowd.
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