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Poll
Question: What do you think of Margaret Thatcher as a person?
Good. - 16 (41%)
Bad. - 23 (59%)
Total Voters: 38

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Margaret Thatcher - good or bad?

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Iluvandy
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #285 on: April 10, 2013, 11:23 AM »
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I don't see the lack of logic in my argument.

Poll Tax = flat rate of tax regardless of house size
Today's Council Tax = rate varies according to house size/area

Yet both are just local taxes that you pay to get council services. And you get the same standard of service regardless of the size of your house. In fact, if you live in a council house or back-to-back terrace, you probably use those services much more when you call out the fire brigade to your chip-pan fires and the police to break up your Staffy fights.

Why not a flat rate of income tax then?

In any case the poll tax was too costly to collect.    It is much easier to fire a bill through a letter box than to chase after punters, especially the younger ones, moving from flat to flat, then back to Mum and Dad when they ran out of money.   It cost the country a fortune while it lasted and was put in place by someone who reacts but doesn't think.
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Grabcopy
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #286 on: April 10, 2013, 11:39 AM »
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A flat rate of income tax would be fine. Means testing of any sort is just a disaster. Nobody will ever better themselves or rise above their circumstances while the government is making allowances for them.
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Iluvandy
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #287 on: April 10, 2013, 11:50 AM »
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A flat rate of income tax would be fine. Means testing of any sort is just a disaster. Nobody will ever better themselves or rise above their circumstances while the government is making allowances for them.

That is just about the most extreme right wing statement I have ever heard.    You have out-Thatchered Thatcher.    Lets dismantle the welfare state and we'll all pay, if we can afford it, for medical help when we need it.    We could all give, say, half of our income to the government no matter how much little or how much we earn.    But I don't see how it will help me to better myself and rise above my circumstances.
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Mark
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #288 on: April 10, 2013, 11:55 AM »
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You have out-Thatchered Thatcher.
Classic Nigel.
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Littlebuddha
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #289 on: April 10, 2013, 11:55 AM »
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The difference with poll tax was that every adult that lived in the house had to pay Poll Tax it did not depend on how big your house was. I think it was unpopular (Dare I Say it) was because as usual she tried it out in Scotland first. Perhaps Nigel you were wealthy enough to pay it. Many were not.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #290 on: April 10, 2013, 11:56 AM »
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You're all a bunch of lily-livered wussies. This country needs some balls. And not the Ed variety.
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Connor
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #291 on: April 10, 2013, 11:57 AM »
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You're all a bunch of lily-livered wussies. This country needs some balls. And not the Ed variety.

The Ed variety comes in a nice bag of shame.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #292 on: April 10, 2013, 11:58 AM »
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The difference with poll tax was that every adult that lived in the house had to pay Poll Tax it did not depend on how big your house was. I think it was unpopular (Dare I Say it) was because as usual she tried it out in Scotland first. Perhaps Nigel you were wealthy enough to pay it. Many were not.

All those adults received council services. It was a personal charge. I can see the logic, but perhaps a flat rate per property would have been better.
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Joe
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #293 on: April 10, 2013, 12:05 PM »
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All those adults received council services. It was a personal charge. I can see the logic, but perhaps a flat rate per property would have been better.

I can see your logic given that services received should be the same no matter which house, but it's not a particularly progressive tax in that way. If you've done well out of 'the system' and got yourself an expensive property then you should pay a bigger share. Playing Devil's advocate here, but everyone receives the same services from the NHS etc and income tax/NI is a tiered system with not much complaint (though those with accountants don't abide by it anyway).
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scotnadian
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #294 on: April 10, 2013, 12:22 PM »
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And what exactly was wrong with the Poll Tax? Even the Mail describes it as a 'shambles' today. But why should how much you pay to the council depend on the size of your house? If you lived in a mansion, your bins weren't emptied any more often and the fire brigade didn't get out to you any quicker. It was the fairest tax yet.

But what if your neighbour's bin was bigger than yours, even if you had the same number of occupants in the home?

Maybe the taxation should have gone by weight? That would have given somebody a job, too.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #295 on: April 10, 2013, 12:36 PM »
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But what if your neighbour's bin was bigger than yours, even if you had the same number of occupants in the home?

Maybe the taxation should have gone by weight? That would have given somebody a job, too.

Weight of person? Seems harsh.
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scotnadian
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #296 on: April 10, 2013, 12:37 PM »
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Consumerism.

Good for the economy.
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #297 on: April 10, 2013, 01:39 PM »
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Lets dismantle the welfare state

Yes please! Jesus, you even get benefits FOR GOING TO WORK these days!

In Spain, you get benefits for two years, then nothing. That's a strong incentive to find a job.
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Mark
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #298 on: April 10, 2013, 01:51 PM »
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I think if you're honestly trying to get a job, you should be supported for as long as you need. We are a civilised society, not one based on darwinism.
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Joe
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Re: Margaret Thatcher - good or bad? « Reply #299 on: April 10, 2013, 01:53 PM »
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I think if you're honestly trying to get a job, you should be supported for as long as you need. We are a civilised society, not one based on darwinism.

Precisely - I'm all for reforming welfare to ensure that piss-takers can't take advantage, but there should be more compassion in the world, not the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude that seems to prevail these days.
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