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Aileen
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8010 on: May 23, 2013, 04:11 PM »
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This is extremely disturbing -

Rise in reports of children sexually abusing children

A growing number of children are being sexually abused by other children, say charities.

They say their helplines have seen a big increase in calls from young people who are being abused.

Freedom of information figures obtained by the NSPCC say more than 5,000 children were reported to police in England and Wales as abusers over the last three years.

Almost all of those accused of the abuse of other children were boys.

Some of those reported were as young as five. More than half of the offences were classified as serious and included rape.

Full article - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/22617414
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8011 on: May 23, 2013, 07:37 PM »
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As tensions grow once again over Islam here in the UK, I want to remind everyone that although a minority is a minority, it's still a pretty hefty one when we talk about Islam.

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html[1]

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06[2] http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY[3]

NOP Research: 24% of British Muslims deny that the four British Muslim suicide bombers carried out the 7/7 attacks; 24% of British Muslims believe the British government carried out the 7/7 attacks http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/religion/survey+government+hasnt+told+truth+about+77/545847[4]

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq. http://people-press.org/report/206/a-year-after-iraq-war[5]

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children: http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/06/32-of-palestinians-support-infanticide/[6] http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053251,00.html[7]

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans 32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans 41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans 38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans 83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose) 62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose) 42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose) A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans: (Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%;
Pakistan 33%) About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S. http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf[8]

Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah 30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah 45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative) 43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative) http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/[9]

Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative). 49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative) 49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative) 39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative) http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/[10]

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified. 34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified. http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/[11]

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops. http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf[12] http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist[13]

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified. 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall). 42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall). 22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall). 29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall). http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60[14]

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never). 28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never). http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/[15]

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60[16]

ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities. 27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate. http://www.scotsman.com/?id=1956912005[17] http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist.html[18]

Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack. http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf[19] http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist[20]

ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police. http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2004/Guardian%20Muslims%20Poll%20Nov%2004/Guardian%20Muslims%20Nov04.asp[21] http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist[22]

Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified. 37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target". http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf[23] http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist[24]
[ Last edit by Mark May 23, 2013, 07:42 PM ] IP Logged
Aileen
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8012 on: May 24, 2013, 12:20 AM »
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I'm sorry if I don't share your views, but I've been on this earth long enough not to feel threatened by a load of alarmist statistics.  How can anyone have faith in the accuracy of opinion polls/surveys carried out on only an extremely small number of people, which, if you look at the frequently repeated Daniel Pipes 2005/07 blog source, is the case here?  Example - July 4, 2006 update: A Populus survey for The Times and ITV News of 1,131 Muslim adults aged 18 and over by telephone and online between June 1-16, the largest poll of British Muslims ever taken, finds, etc.

Also comments like those in The Telegraph of 19 Feb 2006 that "Forty per cent of the British Muslims surveyed said they backed introducing sharia in parts of Britain, while 41 per cent opposed it. Twenty per cent felt sympathy with the July 7 bombers' motives, and 75 per cent did not. One per cent felt the attacks were 'right'" are meaningless because the total number of people on which the percentages are based isn't stated.

Furthermore, many of the sources quoted don't even relate to the UK.

Yes there are problems but I don't believe they're as bad as our scare-mongering government is making out, and anyway they and their predecessors only have themselves to blame for the present situation.  Had Britain adopted the strict immigration policies such as those of Australia and New Zealand decades ago this particular hydra would have been prevented.


[ Last edit by Aileen May 24, 2013, 04:13 AM ] IP Logged
Caz
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8013 on: May 24, 2013, 07:33 AM »
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I agree with Aileen that Governments past and present, should have had this sorted long ago. However, I 'do' find this alarming, though not so much the polls, but the ridiculous situation we now find ourselves in. I'm not worried for myself, but for my children and grandchildren and all those who come after!
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8014 on: May 24, 2013, 09:21 AM »
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Aileen, I was only posting a portion of stats particularly revelant to the UK. It gets much worse elsewhere as you'd expect.

You can dismiss stats as just stats but when you have them from multiple sources with similar results then it's mutual verification in my eyes.

Even if you were to ignore the stats, it's clear the 'minority' is significant compared to other organisations and religions. And with Islam growing so fast, extremism here is naturally growing in proportion.
[ Last edit by Mark May 24, 2013, 09:24 AM ] IP Logged
FCR
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8015 on: May 24, 2013, 09:37 AM »
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If the "minority" are going to get more attention than the "majority", what's the point in voting for anything these days.  Freedom of speech is no longer allowed, so what's the point in me saying I disagree with anything, because I'll either offend the minorities or be called a bigot.

I'm glad I'm an OAP because I won't live long enough to see the decline of the UK.  I watched Question Time last night for a while, but found it more sobering to just switch it off.

RIP the UK that I once knew.
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Aileen
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8016 on: May 24, 2013, 05:02 PM »
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Aileen, I was only posting a portion of stats particularly revelant to the UK. It gets much worse elsewhere as you'd expect.

You can dismiss stats as just stats but when you have them from multiple sources with similar results then it's mutual verification in my eyes.

Even if you were to ignore the stats, it's clear the 'minority' is significant compared to other organisations and religions. And with Islam growing so fast, extremism here is naturally growing in proportion.
I didn't deny that Islam was a problem, albeit a self-inflicted one - but how can the frequently mentioned Pew Research and Daniel Pipes be regarded as multiple sources? Also my own research informs me that Pew is The Pew Research Center, an American think tank organization based in Washington, D.C. that provides information on issues, attitudes and trends shaping the United States and the world.  How impartial is anything to do with terrorism going to be in US?

I'm no stranger to terrorism because I remember only too well the threats and atrocities carried out by the IRA extremists in the UK, not to mention the deaths and maiming of British soliders in Northern Ireland, who many felt should never have been sent there in the first place because they were effectively interfering in a problem that wasn't ours under the guise of peace-keepers.

Edinburgh was the IRA's specific target for several months in the early 1970s and, although all they succeeded in doing was to blow up the military museum at the Castle - something which happened during a performance of the annual Military Tattoo - it wasn't pleasant having to be evacuated from buildings because of bomb threats, whether or not they turned out to be genuine or hoaxes, often with only a few minutes' warning, nor did it make you feel comfortable seeing apparently unattended bags in public places or experiencing the inconvenience, and mess, caused by the removal of litter bins.

The IRA weren't motivated entirely by religion but by more complex issues which had been rumbling on for decades, but does that make them any more acceptable than Islamic extremists, the only difference being that IRA activity has largely ceased, on the surface at least, and that these Muslim extremists should never have been in the UK at all?

Incidentally, I was very gratified to hear that the man responsible for the bomb which murdered four members of the Royal Household Cavalry and seven of their horses in Hyde Park in 1982 has finally been caught and brought to justice.


If the "minority" are going to get more attention than the "majority", what's the point in voting for anything these days.  Freedom of speech is no longer allowed, so what's the point in me saying I disagree with anything, because I'll either offend the minorities or be called a bigot.

I'm glad I'm an OAP because I won't live long enough to see the decline of the UK.  I watched Question Time last night for a while, but found it more sobering to just switch it off.

RIP the UK that I once knew.
I feel the same FCR, and should Scotland become independent then that will be the final nail in the UK coffin.

I agree with Caz too.  I'm not worried for myself but for the present and future generations.


[ Last edit by Aileen May 24, 2013, 05:14 PM ] IP Logged
Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8017 on: May 24, 2013, 05:45 PM »
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Pew, ICM, NOP, Populus and FSIS. They all paint the same picture - a massive proportion of Muslims in this country are what we refer to as extremists.

We simply cannot have politicians running to the defence of Islam. Yes the majority of Muslims are peaceful and yes one side of Islam promotes peace, but the other side promotes brutal murder of unbelieving innocent people. Thankfully for the moment, the majority in this country are choosing to side with the former.
[ Last edit by Mark May 24, 2013, 05:49 PM ] IP Logged
Sabine
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8018 on: May 24, 2013, 05:49 PM »
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Pew, ICM, NOP, Populus and FSIS. They all paint the same picture - a massive proportion of Muslims in this country are what we refer to as extremists.

We simply cannot have politicians running to the defence of Islam. Yes the majority of Muslims are peaceful and yes one side of Islam promotes peace, but the other side promotes brutal murder of unbelieving innocent people. Thankfully for the moment, the majority in this country are choosing to side with the former.

It hurts to hear that, but very true.
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8019 on: May 24, 2013, 05:50 PM »
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It hurts to hear that, but very true.
I didn't expect an agreeable post from you. I respect your ability to be objective on this. hug
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Sabine
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8020 on: May 24, 2013, 05:52 PM »
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I didn't expect an agreeable post from you. I respect your ability to be objective on this. hug

Thanks. It's hard to take it in but you have got to accept the truth.
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FCR
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8021 on: May 24, 2013, 06:08 PM »
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I spent the first 21 years of my life in Charlton and Woolwich was where I had my schooldays "Saturday job" in a shoe shop.  I shopped in Woolwich, went to the pictures (cinema) in Woolwich, drank hot chocolate in the Wimpy Bar in Woolwich, learned to swim at the incredibly old-fashioned swimming baths in Woolwich, went back and forth on the Woolwich ferry just for fun.  What happened in Woolwich on Wednesday makes me sick to the back teeth.  I don't even recognise the place anymore.  London - you're welcome to it.  Thank God I don't live there now. 
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blueberryhill
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8022 on: May 24, 2013, 06:43 PM »
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@FCR
A really good friend of mine lives in Woolwich. There was a murder in his road. It made 2 lines in the local rag and nothing in the nationals  shocking
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8023 on: May 24, 2013, 07:02 PM »
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@FCR
A really good friend of mine lives in Woolwich. There was a murder in his road. It made 2 lines in the local rag and nothing in the nationals  shocking
I can well believe it.  Nothing shocks anymore.  Murders in London are 2 a penny.  Mostly drug and gang related.
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Aileen
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8024 on: May 24, 2013, 07:29 PM »
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It hurts to hear that, but very true.
hug


I can well believe it.  Nothing shocks anymore.  Murders in London are 2 a penny.  Mostly drug and gang related.
I lived in London for three years in the early 1960s, first because I went to a secretarial college for a year, and then I got quite a good job, but to be honest I hated the place and only did it all to please my mother because she thought it would be a good experience for me.  Even in those days I never felt safe outside, and at college we were advised to carry an umbrella as a form of self-defence at all times when out and about, so goodness knows what it's like now.

Back then though it wasn't the Muslims who were the trouble-makers but the West Indians who, amongst other things, seemed to practically run the transport system.  I had no colour prejudice before I went there, but my opinion changed after I was a victim of racial abuse on several occasions.   Being spat at and called 'white trash' as well as a few other unsavoury things in your own country by these arrogant w**s was pretty hard to stomach.
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