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News Thread

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tennis_girl
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8160 on: June 25, 2013, 04:36 PM »
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I think who is a traitor?

Snowden.
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Tommy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8161 on: June 25, 2013, 04:40 PM »
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Ok I wasn't sure if he meant Snowden or Obama.

And no I wouldn't say traitor. . I don't think he did the right thing.  I also don't think he actually cares about privacy or freedom of information. If he did he wouldn't be going to China or Russia or possibly Cuba or Ecuador (who know where he is at this stage).

I fear he is going to sell more important secrets than the NSA scandal. If he does that (like give sensitive info to China on our cyber war with them or give other defensive or anti-terror info away) then yes I would consider him a traitor.
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8162 on: June 25, 2013, 04:45 PM »
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I also don't think he actually cares about privacy or freedom of information. If he did he wouldn't be going to China or Russia or possibly Cuba or Ecuador (who know where he is at this stage).
He really had no choice but to leave the country. Obama is officially the worst U.S. president in history when it comes to treatment of whistle blowers.
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Tommy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8163 on: June 25, 2013, 04:47 PM »
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He really had no choice but to leave the country. Obama is officially the worst U.S. president in history when it comes to treatment of whistle blowers.

I understand why he left the country, but his choices of countries? No. And I do think we have to deal with whistle blowers severely. Some information just has to stay classified.
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8164 on: June 25, 2013, 04:48 PM »
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I understand why he left the country, but his choices of countries? No. And I do think we have to deal with whistle blowers severely. Some information just has to stay classified.

Why are the choices of country an issue for you? He would have been very stupid to stay in country allied with America as that would defeat the whole purpose of leaving America.
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Tommy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8165 on: June 25, 2013, 04:52 PM »
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Why are the choices of country an issue for you? He would have been very stupid to stay in country allied with America as that would defeat the whole purpose of leaving America.

I don't like where he is going because these are countries he could sell valuable information too. Plus the already mentioned human rights violations.

Ecuador is actually the only one I wouldn't mind. They are willing to give him asylum so he should go there.
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8166 on: June 25, 2013, 04:52 PM »
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Oh and breaking news: Putin confirms Snowden is in Moscow airport and is free to leave.

Just like Snowden, he considers himself a rights advocate and fights for sharing information. Ask yourself: should or should not people like these be extradited to be later put to jail?

In any case, I would like not to deal with such issues because it is like shearing a pig: there's lots of squealing and little fleece


Very Happy
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Tommy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8167 on: June 25, 2013, 04:54 PM »
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So Mark, you don't think Snowden should face any consequences for what he did?
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8168 on: June 25, 2013, 04:58 PM »
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I don't like where he is going because these are countries he could sell valuable information too.
You can't blame someone for doing something they haven't done.

You might as well accuse every CIA and NSA agent who has ever had a holiday in China and Russia of the same potential crime.

So Mark, you don't think Snowden should face any consequences for what he did?

I'd like General Alexander to first face the consequences of repeatedly and explicitly lying under oath to congress over NSA spying on their own people.

If he doesn't, then why should Snowden?
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Tommy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8169 on: June 25, 2013, 05:00 PM »
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Touche.

And lets say that happens. You would support some form of charges against Snowden?

I mean, there is just some information that has to remain classified for national security reasons. I think people who leak this information have to face some form of punishment just to show that you can't just do it and get away with it. Next time it could be worse information.
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Tommy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8170 on: June 25, 2013, 05:02 PM »
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You can't blame someone for doing something they haven't done.

You might as well accuse every CIA and NSA agent who has ever had a holiday in China and Russia of the same potential crime.


I'd say there is a big difference between loyal government agents in other countries and a man who is being hunted down by his own government, willing to do or sell who knows what for protection.
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8171 on: June 25, 2013, 05:02 PM »
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And lets say that happens. You would support some form of charges against Snowden?

I mean, there is just some information that has to remain classified for national security reasons. I think people who leak this information have to face some form of punishment just to show that you can't just do it and get away with it. Next time it could be worse information.

Once the legality of the operations have been decided in a public court, then I would fully support Snowden being charged.

You can't have Obama saying the NSA has strict oversight without explaining in detail what that oversight is. There is no excuse to keep such information secret.
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Tommy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8172 on: June 25, 2013, 05:05 PM »
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You can't have Obama saying the NSA has strict oversight without explaining in detail what that oversight is. There is no excuse to keep such information secret.

I agree I agree. We were told it had strong congressional oversight...but that seems to have been a lie as multiple Dem and Rep senators have said no one off the Intelligence committees have been briefed.
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Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8173 on: June 25, 2013, 05:10 PM »
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I agree I agree. We were told it had strong congressional oversight...but that seems to have been a lie as multiple Dem and Rep senators have said no one off the Intelligence committees have been briefed.
Indeed. I'm not automatically against a surveillance state but it needs to be understood and voted in by the public. If the public decide that privacy is worth entirely sacrificing for the sake of preventing something that is less likely to kill them than falling in their bathtub, then the people have spoken. But right now they have no say.

I'd say there is a big difference between loyal government agents in other countries and a man who is being hunted down by his own government, willing to do or sell who knows what for protection.

There is absolutely no indication Snowden is willing to sell the information. In fact, all indications are to the contrary. So I simply cannot accept what you are saying is a valid argument.

The fact he has been very selective in what he has revealed shows he wants to protect American agents in the field as much as possible.
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Tommy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8174 on: June 25, 2013, 05:13 PM »
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There is absolutely no indication Snowden is willing to sell the information. In fact, all indications are to the contrary. So I simply cannot accept what you are saying is a valid argument.

The fact he has been very selective in what he has revealed shows he wants to protect American agents in the field as much as possible.

I highly doubt he knows the locations of many agents. However he would know the US strategy for the cyber war with China. I think its dangerous to just give him the benefit of doubt that he wouldn't sell information.
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