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Author Topic: News Thread  (Read 213184 times)
Hazybear
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7800 on: March 14, 2013, 12:41 PM »
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Oh.......I know it wouldn't be a 'cure all', but it would make the world a better place for a lot of little Catholics! It would buy a hell of a lot of mosquito nets and vaccinations and would put food in a lot of swollen little bellys. Of course,  this would only be a temporary help, unless they changed their attitude to contraception, but at least it would be a start!

Also just to be a bummer but there is also the problem that these are 'listed' historical buildings and items. Yes the Catholic church has a huge amount in terms of expensive buildings and items but they are of historical importance as well as religious and as a historian I can't agree to selling of items that were created in say the middle ages shrug:

Just saw this list on a Guardian article:

He is the son of an Italian railway worker.

• He trained as a chemist.

• He is the first non-European pope in the modern era.

• He claims that adoption by homosexuals is a form of discrimination against children but believes that condoms "can be permissible" to prevent infection.

In 2001 he washed and kissed the feet of Aids patients in a hospice.

• He speaks fluent Italian, as well as Spanish and German.

• Until now he has been living in a small flat, eschewing a formal bishop's residence.

• He told Argentinians not to travel to Rome to celebrate if he was appointed but to give their money to the poor instead.

• He is believed to have been the runner-up in the last papal conclave in 2005.

• He has co-written a book, in Spanish, called Sobre el Cielo y la Tierra (On Heaven and Earth).

• Though conservative on church doctrine, he has criticised priests who refuse to baptise babies born to single mothers.
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Caz
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7801 on: March 14, 2013, 01:03 PM »
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I doubt that Jesus would have put historical buildings before dying children, so 'no contest' in my opinion!
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Iluvandy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7802 on: March 14, 2013, 01:24 PM »
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I doubt that Jesus would have put historical buildings before dying children, so 'no contest' in my opinion!

And it is a doubt.   We don't know.    Different times - different values.   Even if we are to believe all the stories of miracles there would still have been children dying at that time.    On a political report the other day it was said that in a poll in the UK the top cut people voted for was overseas aid.   Are we putting our own comforts before dying children?
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blueberryhill
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7803 on: March 14, 2013, 01:25 PM »
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@ Caz
"...give away what you have and follow me." seem to remember.
Always thought Jesus was a "communist" in the true meaning of the word.
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Caz
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7804 on: March 14, 2013, 01:33 PM »
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And it is a doubt.   We don't know.    Different times - different values.   Even if we are to believe all the stories of miracles there would still have been children dying at that time.    On a political report the other day it was said that in a poll in the UK the top cut people voted for was overseas aid.   Are we putting our own comforts before dying children?
Maybe Iluvandy, but I don't put a lot of trust in these polls. It would be the 'last' cut I'd vote for, but then......nobody ever asks me!
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Caz
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7805 on: March 14, 2013, 01:35 PM »
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@ Caz
"...give away what you have and follow me." seem to remember.
Always thought Jesus was a "communist" in the true meaning of the word.
At least he didn't say ......give everything you have to me......unlike the Catholic church!
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iamabritt
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7806 on: March 14, 2013, 01:55 PM »
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At least he didn't say ......give everything you have to me......unlike the Catholic church!
I think jesus wants the most imprtant part of you....your heart.
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Hazybear
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7807 on: March 14, 2013, 01:57 PM »
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At least he didn't say ......give everything you have to me......unlike the Catholic church!

And people say that the Catholic church is bigoted and tars everyone with the same brush Rolling Eyes Not saying they've got it all right but not all of them are materialistic, child molesting haters.
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Caz
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7808 on: March 14, 2013, 02:11 PM »
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And people say that the Catholic church is bigoted and tars everyone with the same brush Rolling Eyes Not saying they've got it all right but not all of them are materialistic, child molesting haters.
No Hazel.....of course they aren't. and there are priests in parishes that would give you the shirt off their backs if you needed it.......I know......I've met a few. In fact, one of the 'best' men I ever met, was a Franciscan monk called 'Father Francis'! However, I do think that the people who run the catholic church, are responsible for a lot of the misery in this world and they serve themselves rather than God!
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Caz
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7809 on: March 14, 2013, 02:33 PM »
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Oh.......Iluvandy and BBH.......Just for the record, I do not believe in 'blue blood' and I don't think the Queen is one iota 'better' than my granny, in fact, the Royals were only the biggest landgrabbers and rogues in history......but that 'is' history. I think our Queen has been one of the hardest working people in this country and I think she brings in a lot more money  than she costs us, so I have nothing but admiration and respect for her. Most of the people of Britain get a lot of joy out of all the pomp and ceremony that surround the Royals and I'm sure many other countries would steal her from us if they could! I for one, will miss her when she's gone, so you two just keep your hands off Buck House!   Eyebrow raise. I do agree though, that it's appalling that there are people living in cardboard boxes on our streets!   Frown
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DaveH
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7810 on: March 14, 2013, 02:49 PM »
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Dave H you are showing that you are a bigot as well.  Think doh


Let's see... Francis is a bigot because he has said that same sex marriage is "the work of the devil". He is a bigot because he said that adoption by same-sex couples is "discrimination against children". The chance of him reversing Benedict's edict to Africans not to use condoms is zero, something which is directly responsible for thousands of Aids infections, an edict that MAKES PEOPLE DIE.

There is no evidenced reason to be against same-sex marriage or adoption by gay couples. It is simply backwards prejudice.

Right there is extremism and right wing political statements. If  being against the anti-gay, anti-abortionist, anti-contraception pronouncements of the Catholic Church makes me a bigot, then yes I am bigot. I hope everyone should be that kind of bigot.

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DaveH
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7811 on: March 14, 2013, 03:23 PM »
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Em Catholic church as a whole is against gay marriage and that to me is scriptural- why shouldn't they be allowed to take a stance on their beliefs? If homosexuals disagree they don't have to be part of the catholic church and if they aren't christians they what does it matter to them what the pope says?
On Africa and contraception, I agree it is one area where common sense needs to be applied.

So what that their prejudice is "scriptural"? This means "written in a book". That defends backwards views how?

It is also scriptural that slavery is condoned by God. Even the Catholic Church don't defend slavery any more.

It is also scriptural that disease is caused by demon possession. The Catholic Church know that everyone would laugh at them if they held this view, so they reserve demon possession for a few cases of mental illness. They get away with this ridiculousness, although aware and astute people should still be laughing at them for this. Well, if it were funny, because again people have died due to this backwards attitude.  There was the famous case of Annelise Michel, a girl presenting Schizophrenic symptoms who was "exorcised" by her  priest instead of given medical care. She died of course, in a shocking state of neglect.

It is scriptural that man was created.  It is scriptural that the Earth was formed in six days. These stances the Catholic Church has had to abandon, because these ideas will no longer fly with scientifically enlightened, educated people.

"scriptural" is NO justification of anything, a fact which even the Catholic Church have recognized. Indeed, the Catholic Church published "The Gift of Scripture" which tells adherents that the bible is not completely historically true and that they should not expect 100% accuracy from it.

Why shouldn't the Catholic Church be allowed their beliefs? Because they are backwards beliefs that harm people, and have no part in a progressive society where all are equal before the law.

Sure you CAN believe that God wants Africans to die of Aids, that He wants Aids to spread throughout the continent, if you want to be a good Catholic. Is this belief acceptable? Absolutely not. It is barbaric and idiotic.

Is it acceptable to be against the loving union of two gay people? NO! Why not? Because homosexuality is not a choice, so CANNOT be a  sinful consequence of freewill. It's just the way some people are and has no bearing on anyone's character or abilities (including the ability to raise children).

Why does it matter what the Pope says? Because he has political power. And good people with an ounce of morality should not rest until the day comes when popes have no power at all.

I recommend this:









[ Last edit by DaveH March 14, 2013, 03:54 PM ] IP Logged
Hazybear
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7812 on: March 14, 2013, 03:27 PM »
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So what that their prejudice is "scriptural"? This means "written in a book". That defends backwards views how?

It is also scriptural that slavery is condoned by God. Even the Catholic Church don't defend slavery any more.

It is also scriptural that disease is caused by demon possession. The Catholic Church know that everyone would laugh at them if they held this view, so they reserve demon possession for a few cases of mental illness. They get away with this ridiculousness, although aware and astute people should still be laughing at them for this. Well, if it were funny, because again people have died due to this backwards attitude.  There was the famous case of Annelise Michel, a girl presenting Schizophrenic symptoms who was "exorcised" by her  priest instead of given medical care. She died of course, in a shocking state of neglect.

It is scriptural that man was created.  It is scriptural that the Earth was formed in six days. These stances the Catholic Church has had to abandon, because these ideas will no longer fly with scientifically enlightened, educated people.

"scriptural" is NO justification of anything, a fact which even the Catholic Church have recognized. Indeed, the Catholic Church published "The Gift of Scripture" which tells adherents that the bible is not completely historically true and that they should not expect 100% accuracy from it.

Why shouldn't the Catholic Church be allowed their beliefs? Because they are backwards beliefs that harm people, and have no part in a progressive society where all are equal before the law.

Sure you CAN believe that God wants Africans to die of Aids, that He wants Aids to spread throughout the continent, if you want to be a good Catholic. Is this belief acceptable? Absolutely not. It is barbaric and idiotic.

Is it acceptable to be against the loving union of two gay people? NO! Why not? Because homosexuality is not a choice, so CANNOT be a  sinful consequence of freewill. It's just the way some people are and has no bearing on anyone's character or abilities (including the ability to raise children).

Why does it matter what the Pope says? Because he has political power. And good people with an ounce of morality should not rest until the day comes when popes have no power at all.

I recommend this:



Take it you didn't read the post with the points from the Guardian on Pope Francis where it says he sees the need for condoms to prevent illness?
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Sir Panda
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7813 on: March 14, 2013, 03:37 PM »
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Some excellent posts, Dave. I doff my cap.

Expressing my thoughts much more articulately than I could.
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Iluvandy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7814 on: March 14, 2013, 03:38 PM »
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Let's see... Francis is a bigot because he has said that same sex marriage is "the work of the devil". He is a bigot because he said that adoption by same-sex couples is "discrimination against children". The chance of him reversing Benedict's edict to Africans not to use condoms is zero, something which is directly responsible for thousands of Aids infections, an edict that MAKES PEOPLE DIE.

There is no evidenced reason to be against same-sex marriage or adoption by gay couples. It is simply backwards prejudice.

Right there is extremism and right wing political statements. If  being against the anti-gay, anti-abortionist, anti-contraception pronouncements of the Catholic Church makes me a bigot, then yes I am bigot. I hope everyone should be that kind of bigot.



I take that the good bigots agree with you Dave and the bad bigots are on the other side in whatever argument.     That's the way politicians think  - if you are on my side you are a freedom fighter - if you are against me you are a terrorist.
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