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News Thread

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DaveH
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7830 on: March 14, 2013, 09:38 PM »
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Dave ,if you think a fetus doesnt feel pain ,go to you tube and watch "The silent scream'"

Could you summarize the evidence before I spend half an hour?

It's just that as I understand it the thalamocortical connections are crucial to feeling pain, and they are not developed until 26 weeks. A meta-analysis (when they look at many research papers, summarize, and write one paper about it) by researchers from the University of California concluded  that fetuses are unlikely to feel pain until the third trimester of pregnancy.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9053416/

Of course, we know fetuses certainly don't feel pain early on in the pregnancy, because there is nothing at all developed at that point that could feel pain.
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Clydey
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7831 on: March 14, 2013, 10:59 PM »
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They preach their views because they believe in them.    Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial.    If it is what they believe they continue because they must.

And they deserve to be criticised for holding to those beliefs, particularly as they have tended to adapt to the modern world.
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Clydey
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7832 on: March 14, 2013, 11:02 PM »
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Em Catholic church as a whole is against gay marriage and that to me is scriptural- why shouldn't they be allowed to take a stance on their beliefs? If homosexuals disagree they don't have to be part of the catholic church and if they aren't christians they what does it matter to them what the pope says?
On Africa and contraception, I agree it is one area where common sense needs to be applied.

And who cares if people preach hatred towards minorities? It's not a matter of their right to believe. They can believe as they wish, but don't expect people not to criticise them.
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Clydey
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7833 on: March 14, 2013, 11:05 PM »
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So what that their prejudice is "scriptural"? This means "written in a book". That defends backwards views how?

It is also scriptural that slavery is condoned by God. Even the Catholic Church don't defend slavery any more.

It is also scriptural that disease is caused by demon possession. The Catholic Church know that everyone would laugh at them if they held this view, so they reserve demon possession for a few cases of mental illness. They get away with this ridiculousness, although aware and astute people should still be laughing at them for this. Well, if it were funny, because again people have died due to this backwards attitude.  There was the famous case of Annelise Michel, a girl presenting Schizophrenic symptoms who was "exorcised" by her  priest instead of given medical care. She died of course, in a shocking state of neglect.

It is scriptural that man was created.  It is scriptural that the Earth was formed in six days. These stances the Catholic Church has had to abandon, because these ideas will no longer fly with scientifically enlightened, educated people.

"scriptural" is NO justification of anything, a fact which even the Catholic Church have recognized. Indeed, the Catholic Church published "The Gift of Scripture" which tells adherents that the bible is not completely historically true and that they should not expect 100% accuracy from it.

Why shouldn't the Catholic Church be allowed their beliefs? Because they are backwards beliefs that harm people, and have no part in a progressive society where all are equal before the law.

Sure you CAN believe that God wants Africans to die of Aids, that He wants Aids to spread throughout the continent, if you want to be a good Catholic. Is this belief acceptable? Absolutely not. It is barbaric and idiotic.

Is it acceptable to be against the loving union of two gay people? NO! Why not? Because homosexuality is not a choice, so CANNOT be a  sinful consequence of freewill. It's just the way some people are and has no bearing on anyone's character or abilities (including the ability to raise children).

Why does it matter what the Pope says? Because he has political power. And good people with an ounce of morality should not rest until the day comes when popes have no power at all.

I recommend this:











I remember this debate.

Ann Widdecombe really is an odious ****. Hitch and Fry mopped the floor with the pair of them.
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Clydey
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7834 on: March 14, 2013, 11:09 PM »
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What are you talking about? Do you even know?

Do you think I should agree with people I don't agree with?

Or are you under the dangerous impression that all opinions are equally good and so we should simultaneously hold both sides?


You can blame postmodernism for that particularly pernicious development.
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Clydey
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7835 on: March 14, 2013, 11:13 PM »
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Dave - you rant but you don't think.    Most of your post is nothing to do with what I said and you obviously have no idea of what I believe.     I questioned your thought processes because you seemed to imply that there are goods bigots and bad bigots.   I don't know you well enough ro know whether you are a bigot but you certainly display the symptoms.

He was mocking your idea of what a bigot is, not suggesting that bigotry can be either good or bad.

Dave ,if you think a fetus doesnt feel pain ,go to you tube and watch "The silent scream'"

All evidence points to the fact that you need a functioning brain to feel pain.
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iamabritt
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7836 on: March 14, 2013, 11:13 PM »
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Could you summarize the evidence before I spend half an hour?

It's just that as I understand it the thalamocortical connections are crucial to feeling pain, and they are not developed until 26 weeks. A meta-analysis (when they look at many research papers, summarize, and write one paper about it) by researchers from the University of California concluded  that fetuses are unlikely to feel pain until the third trimester of pregnancy.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9053416/

Of course, we know fetuses certainly don't feel pain early on in the pregnancy, because there is nothing at all developed at that point that could feel pain.

Just watch the video Dave.
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Clydey
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7837 on: March 14, 2013, 11:16 PM »
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Just watch the video Dave.

Just read some relevant studies, Britt.

The documentary you are referring to is from 1984. Not exactly on the cutting edge of research, is it?

The more I read about it, the more I see that it's basically a propaganda flick. The links on wikipedia suggest that it was savaged by the medical community. Like Expelled: No Intelligence allowed, I expect the film is an appeal to emotion. That's what these propaganda films do. They distort the facts and make an emotional appeal.
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scotnadian
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7838 on: March 14, 2013, 11:43 PM »
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-science-higgs-idUSBRE9270XW20130314

GENEVA | Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:08am EDT
 
(Reuters) - Physicists who last summer triumphantly announced the discovery of a new particle but held back from saying what it was, declared on Thursday there was now little doubt it was the long-sought Higgs boson.
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DaveH
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7839 on: March 14, 2013, 11:51 PM »
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Just watch the video Dave.

Just tell me one scientific paper referenced by the video and then I shall bother. Otherwise it's just propaganda isn't it?

I gave you the evidence that it is 26 weeks until a fetus can feel pain. Some neurobiologists contend 20 weeks, but they are in the minority. No-one is saying something stupid like 12 weeks or "from conception".
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Aileen
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7840 on: March 15, 2013, 12:06 AM »
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So what that their prejudice is "scriptural"? This means "written in a book". That defends backwards views how?

It is also scriptural that slavery is condoned by God. Even the Catholic Church don't defend slavery any more.

It is also scriptural that disease is caused by demon possession. The Catholic Church know that everyone would laugh at them if they held this view, so they reserve demon possession for a few cases of mental illness. They get away with this ridiculousness, although aware and astute people should still be laughing at them for this. Well, if it were funny, because again people have died due to this backwards attitude.  There was the famous case of Annelise Michel, a girl presenting Schizophrenic symptoms who was "exorcised" by her  priest instead of given medical care. She died of course, in a shocking state of neglect.

It is scriptural that man was created.  It is scriptural that the Earth was formed in six days. These stances the Catholic Church has had to abandon, because these ideas will no longer fly with scientifically enlightened, educated people.

"scriptural" is NO justification of anything, a fact which even the Catholic Church have recognized. Indeed, the Catholic Church published "The Gift of Scripture" which tells adherents that the bible is not completely historically true and that they should not expect 100% accuracy from it.

Why shouldn't the Catholic Church be allowed their beliefs? Because they are backwards beliefs that harm people, and have no part in a progressive society where all are equal before the law.

Sure you CAN believe that God wants Africans to die of Aids, that He wants Aids to spread throughout the continent, if you want to be a good Catholic. Is this belief acceptable? Absolutely not. It is barbaric and idiotic.

Is it acceptable to be against the loving union of two gay people? NO! Why not? Because homosexuality is not a choice, so CANNOT be a  sinful consequence of freewill. It's just the way some people are and has no bearing on anyone's character or abilities (including the ability to raise children).

Why does it matter what the Pope says? Because he has political power. And good people with an ounce of morality should not rest until the day comes when popes have no power at all.

Some excellent points there Dave - and ones with which I entirely agree. (I'm not RC, btw).

What I don't quite understand is why, once again, a Pope is elected who is not only 'old' in biological terms but who also, if some reports are to be believed, is not in the best of health. Given the weighty issues Pope Franicis has to sort out, surely it would be in the Church's interests to have elected a younger man? 
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Bevc
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7841 on: March 15, 2013, 06:07 AM »
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Embarassed  The new Pope was a talking point at work today.  Sometimes I really ought to keep my mouth firmly shut! shutup  
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Iluvandy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7842 on: March 15, 2013, 10:00 AM »
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And they deserve to be criticised for holding to those beliefs, particularly as they have tended to adapt to the modern world.

I did not say they should not be criticised.    I said if they hold those beliefs they are bound to preach them.
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Iluvandy
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7843 on: March 15, 2013, 10:16 AM »
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He was mocking your idea of what a bigot is, not suggesting that bigotry can be either good or bad.

All evidence points to the fact that you need a functioning brain to feel pain.

He said he thinks everyone should be the kind of bigot he is.    If it was an attempt at mockery it was based on a false premise.   He had no way of knowing what my idea of a bigot is - I suppose it really is someone who cannot tolerate other people's opinions - and I thought Dave was displaying the symptoms of bigotry.    IF he had been correct in his assumption he should not have been mocking my idea.   I'm feeling patronised again.
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tamila
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Re: News Thread « Reply #7844 on: March 15, 2013, 10:32 AM »
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I see that Delpo would like to meet the new Pope. 

I cannot believe the latest bit of news.  The Pope is urging we British to give up the Falklands.  I would have thought this was political.
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