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News Thread

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Masaka
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8415 on: September 20, 2013, 11:18 AM »
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My objection to it is more that I have yet to be convinced that the wearing of it is actually completely voluntary. If young girls are being conditioned into it from the age of 11 or 12, and being fed the "you will dishonour the family and the faith if you don't wear it" brain washing. Then I see it as a form of abuse. As I understand it it is not an actual requirement of Islam, anymore than wearing a crucifix is for a Christian. So if one is not tolerated then surely the other equally should not be.

I can't get my head round the fact that anyone who had a completely free choice would voluntarily go around covered head to toe in a shapeless black garment that prevents them from interacting with the people and environment around them.  Would someone who was deaf still have to wear it for example?  Doesn't it also have health implications? The lack of exposure to sunlight.

I do think people have the right to determine how people dress in some situations. Be it school or a working environment. Health and safety garb is not optional.

I can only say that if I went in to a hospital appointment and somebody was wearing one I would refuse to be seen by them. Partly because I am deaf and rely on visual cues, but also because it does make me feel uncomfortable. I reserve the right not to be placed in that position.  Why should the rights of somebody to dress in a certain way trump my rights to feel comfortable in a public setting?

When I worked in Uganda I respected the feelings of the people around me and did not wander around in skimpy clothing. On the rare occasions I have visited a mosque I have no issue with removing my shoes, even though it's incredibly awkward to manage it. When I am with religious friends I make a concerted effort not to blaspheme regardless of whether I am at home or not. I do not feel that some of the Muslim communities extend that common courtesy to me.

My personal view is the veil dis-empowers women. I don't want to be party to that.

I completely understand it in countries where there are raging sandstorms, men in those locations wear headgear and robes that block out the sand.  That does not apply in this country.

What people chose to wear within their own homes is their business. When their choice of garment impacts on me  it becomes my business.

I will now duck..........
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Aileen
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8416 on: September 20, 2013, 12:52 PM »
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I've told this story on here before but it's relevant to your mention of the cross. I was an administrator at a university and as part of my job I had to deal with payments etc to our PhD students for the teaching they did as part of their course. I remember being introduced to 10 students. On a weekly basis they all had to come and see me to go through various things.  I remember having to email one student because he had not submitted his tutorial sheets or his expense forms. It meant I was late delivering information to our finance office.  Several days later he emailed me to say that he would be meeting our Head of Dept. on a weekly basis and not dealing with me.  I had no idea what I had done wrong or if I had indeed done something wrong. My boss told me it was nothing to worry about BUT I hadn't to email this student.  It created a lot of fuss and I'll admit it riled me as I had no idea what was going on. At my annual review I felt I had to mention it and it turned out that this male muslim student did not want to deal with me because I wore a cross around my neck. Not that it is relevant but it's a tiny diamond cross that I wear more for sentimental reasons than anything else. Needless to say I was absolutely furious and more with my boss than the student. Why didn't my boss tell this student that what I wore was none of his business? Well, why would he? It was obviously easier to insult and embarrass me.
That's disgraceful Iona.  Talking of jewelry, I was educated at a school for girls back in the 1950s, where there were a handful of Jewish pupils who, of course, were allowed to take the Jewish holidays (no-one had a problem with that), but they were allowed to wear their Star of David necklaces despite the fact that wearing jewelry was prohibited, yet one girl in my class was refused her request that, as a devout Christian, she would like to wear a small crucifix one.  It seems pandering to ethnic minorities is nothing new!
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blueberryhill
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8417 on: September 20, 2013, 01:00 PM »
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http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/change-the-law-to-better-protect-vulnerable-children-like-daniel-pelka?share_id=usPFNAWWGf&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition



I'm putting this up again in case some of you have missed it. Sorry to intrude in the current discussion but I feel so strongly about this. At the moment it is not mandatory for agencies to pass concerns about child abuse onto each other. This petition seeks to chance this.
If 100,000 signatures trigger a debate in the H of C.
Please please sign and pass it on.
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Masaka
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8418 on: September 20, 2013, 01:28 PM »
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http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/change-the-law-to-better-protect-vulnerable-children-like-daniel-pelka?share_id=usPFNAWWGf&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition



I'm putting this up again in case some of you have missed it. Sorry to intrude in the current discussion but I feel so strongly about this. At the moment it is not mandatory for agencies to pass concerns about child abuse onto each other. This petition seeks to chance this.
If 100,000 signatures trigger a debate in the H of C.
Please please sign and pass it on.

Done
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Caz
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8419 on: September 20, 2013, 01:38 PM »
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My objection to it is more that I have yet to be convinced that the wearing of it is actually completely voluntary. If young girls are being conditioned into it from the age of 11 or 12, and being fed the "you will dishonour the family and the faith if you don't wear it" brain washing. Then I see it as a form of abuse. As I understand it it is not an actual requirement of Islam, anymore than wearing a crucifix is for a Christian. So if one is not tolerated then surely the other equally should not be.

I can't get my head round the fact that anyone who had a completely free choice would voluntarily go around covered head to toe in a shapeless black garment that prevents them from interacting with the people and environment around them.  Would someone who was deaf still have to wear it for example?  Doesn't it also have health implications? The lack of exposure to sunlight.

I do think people have the right to determine how people dress in some situations. Be it school or a working environment. Health and safety garb is not optional.

I can only say that if I went in to a hospital appointment and somebody was wearing one I would refuse to be seen by them. Partly because I am deaf and rely on visual cues, but also because it does make me feel uncomfortable. I reserve the right not to be placed in that position.  Why should the rights of somebody to dress in a certain way trump my rights to feel comfortable in a public setting?

When I worked in Uganda I respected the feelings of the people around me and did not wander around in skimpy clothing. On the rare occasions I have visited a mosque I have no issue with removing my shoes, even though it's incredibly awkward to manage it. When I am with religious friends I make a concerted effort not to blaspheme regardless of whether I am at home or not. I do not feel that some of the Muslim communities extend that common courtesy to me.

My personal view is the veil dis-empowers women. I don't want to be party to that.

I completely understand it in countries where there are raging sandstorms, men in those locations wear headgear and robes that block out the sand.  That does not apply in this country.

What people chose to wear within their own homes is their business. When their choice of garment impacts on me  it becomes my business.

I will now duck..........

Good post Masaka......You've saved me the bother!
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Sabine
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8420 on: September 20, 2013, 01:44 PM »
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In certain environments people decide how I dress. Why should they be any different?

Good point, Iona....this veil thingy is utter nonsense.
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Aileen
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8421 on: September 20, 2013, 03:30 PM »
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My objection to it is more that I have yet to be convinced that the wearing of it is actually completely voluntary. If young girls are being conditioned into it from the age of 11 or 12, and being fed the "you will dishonour the family and the faith if you don't wear it" brain washing. Then I see it as a form of abuse. As I understand it it is not an actual requirement of Islam, anymore than wearing a crucifix is for a Christian. So if one is not tolerated then surely the other equally should not be.

I can't get my head round the fact that anyone who had a completely free choice would voluntarily go around covered head to toe in a shapeless black garment that prevents them from interacting with the people and environment around them.  Would someone who was deaf still have to wear it for example?  Doesn't it also have health implications? The lack of exposure to sunlight.

I do think people have the right to determine how people dress in some situations. Be it school or a working environment. Health and safety garb is not optional.

I can only say that if I went in to a hospital appointment and somebody was wearing one I would refuse to be seen by them. Partly because I am deaf and rely on visual cues, but also because it does make me feel uncomfortable. I reserve the right not to be placed in that position.  Why should the rights of somebody to dress in a certain way trump my rights to feel comfortable in a public setting?

When I worked in Uganda I respected the feelings of the people around me and did not wander around in skimpy clothing. On the rare occasions I have visited a mosque I have no issue with removing my shoes, even though it's incredibly awkward to manage it. When I am with religious friends I make a concerted effort not to blaspheme regardless of whether I am at home or not. I do not feel that some of the Muslim communities extend that common courtesy to me.

My personal view is the veil dis-empowers women. I don't want to be party to that.

I completely understand it in countries where there are raging sandstorms, men in those locations wear headgear and robes that block out the sand.  That does not apply in this country.

What people chose to wear within their own homes is their business. When their choice of garment impacts on me  it becomes my business.

I will now duck..........

Good posting!  You've expressed your thoughts much better than I could.

I'm sorry to hear about your deafness.  My father was profoundly deaf and had to depend on hearing aids, and I know how difficult and frustrating it could be for him.

I certainly don't think there's a place for veils in hospitals.  Not only would they add to a patient's stress - and these places are stressful enough - but because the wearer is constantly breathing underneath one then it must be a haven for germs and viruses which will inevitably spread into the atmosphere.  If they want to take that health risk, fair enough, but exposing patients, particularly the very ill and the elderly, to them is totally unacceptable.  Also our hospitals now have serious problems with superbugs as it is.  We don't want any more.
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teejay1
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8422 on: September 20, 2013, 05:05 PM »
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If you feel as sad as I do about the terrible life and death of Daniel Petza, please sign this petition and please pass it on to your friends. Apparently it is not mandatory for relevant agencies to share concerns, quite shocking.
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/change-the-law-to-better-protect-vulnerable-children-like-daniel-pelka?share_id=usPFNAWWGf&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

Thank you BBH for bringing this petition to our attention. I did hear of the petition on the news the other week, but hadn't been able to find it. I've signed it now.

Cases like Daniel's make me so angry. Time and time after these sorts of cases we see social services etc on the news coming out with trite comments like 'we must make sure this never happens again', but lo and behold, they always do.

My parents adopted a number of children from different situations. Some of them went through being physically abused by their parents, so unfortunately it's no surprise to me that these things happen. What horrifies me is that those charged with the care of children are not required by law to report concerns of child abuse. I didn't know that until Daniel Pelka's case was made public. It can't be right in a civilised society that those charged with the care of children should be able to overlook concerns, or that the law enables them to do so.
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Alis
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8423 on: September 20, 2013, 06:47 PM »
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Thank you BBH for bringing this petition to our attention. I did hear of the petition on the news the other week, but hadn't been able to find it. I've signed it now.

Cases like Daniel's make me so angry. Time and time after these sorts of cases we see social services etc on the news coming out with trite comments like 'we must make sure this never happens again', but lo and behold, they always do.

My parents adopted a number of children from different situations. Some of them went through being physically abused by their parents, so unfortunately it's no surprise to me that these things happen. What horrifies me is that those charged with the care of children are not required by law to report concerns of child abuse. I didn't know that until Daniel Pelka's case was made public. It can't be right in a civilised society that those charged with the care of children should be able to overlook concerns, or that the law enables them to do so.

I really hope that this petition is successful and that the law is amended.  As a retired teacher, I know only too well how difficult it can be for a young, inexperienced teacher to decide whether or not to flag up suspected abuse.  If there were a legal obligation to do so it would take the decision out of their hands making the reporting much easier.
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blueberryhill
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8424 on: September 20, 2013, 09:50 PM »
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Thanks TJ, Masaka and Alis  hug
And more  hug for everyone whose signed. I do believe we will succeed.
[ Last edit by blueberryhill September 20, 2013, 10:03 PM ] IP Logged
Mark
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8425 on: September 20, 2013, 09:53 PM »
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Rolling Eyes

You guys do not get to decide how other people dress because how they dress makes you uncomfortable.
Riiighhhtt.... I'm going to walk into a bank now with my new fashionable balaclava. You have no right to express your disapproval.

This isn't some black and white principle about freedom of expression - compromises have to be made in society.
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robbie
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8426 on: September 20, 2013, 10:40 PM »
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Riiighhhtt.... I'm going to walk into a bank now with my new fashionable balaclava. You have no right to express your disapproval.

This isn't some black and white principle about freedom of expression - compromises have to be made in society.
Or walk in certain countries and flout there laws by wearing tee shirt and shorts or whatever and saying Cmon "surely this doesn't make you uncomfortable" and see where that gets me.
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blueberryhill
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8427 on: September 22, 2013, 10:32 AM »
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Thought provoking article:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/21/american-gun-out-control-porter

Time for UN intervention?
[ Last edit by blueberryhill September 22, 2013, 01:01 PM ] IP Logged
Aileen
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8428 on: September 22, 2013, 01:43 PM »
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Thanks for posting that BBH.  Pretty alarming stuff.

Talking to American friends, I always sense a kind of despair that the gun lobby is too powerful to challenge and that nothing will ever change. The same resignation was evident in President Obama's rather lifeless reaction to the Washington shooting last week. There is absolutely nothing he can do, which underscores the fact that America is in a jam and that international pressure may be one way of reducing the slaughter over the next generation. This has reached the point where it has ceased to be a domestic issue. The world cannot stand idly by.

I just wonder though what the UN could do, given that the US is a member country and is also a member of the UN Security Council.
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iamabritt
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Re: News Thread « Reply #8429 on: September 22, 2013, 02:31 PM »
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American's believe  in their constitution.The right to bear arms .personally i think it stinks but you'l be hard pressed to get them to give up something as fundimentally " American" as their  guns.
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