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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (46.7%)
No (atheist) - 30 (40%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 10 (13.3%)
Total Voters: 74

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Religious Discussions

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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4020 on: June 02, 2012, 01:01 PM »
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Maybe it's more plausible that there's life out there and that one god didn't just create us and no-one else? dontknow
That's the correct stance based on probability, yeah.
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Hazybear
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4021 on: June 02, 2012, 01:07 PM »
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I had a thought in the shower this morning that made me feel frustrated.

As a mild atheist I naturally tend to think that if God exists, why doesn't he just prove it rather than do such a good job at concealing it. But then what frustrated me was when I started to think of scenarios that would prove his existence I was left wanting.

If this alleged God took me into space and flew me around, does that prove he is God? No because it could simply be intelligent life from another planet who has mastered space travel to a level we don't recognise. If life does discover us from another world, that life would most likely be significantly more advanced than us to the degree their technology would appear to be supernatural.

So my question to everyone is what could God do to prove himself?

Deep but interesting. Would love to chat on this but lunch is ready and I'm out the rest of the day. Will be on tomorrow though and will see where this discussion has gone Smile
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Bevc
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4022 on: June 02, 2012, 01:10 PM »
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That's the correct stance based on probability, yeah.

I edited my reply - added a question at the end.

Do you want to believe?  And then I'm thinking, do you need proof to believe?  Clearly there are lots that don't.
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4023 on: June 02, 2012, 01:14 PM »
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Do you want to believe?  And then I'm thinking, do you need proof to believe?  Clearly there are lots that don't.
Yes - a life after this sounds quite appealing to me but do I want a God as described by Christianity, no.

Do you need proof to believe?
In other words you are asking me, "Are you a rational person?". Yes I do need strong evidence but now I'm left wondering what that could be. But surely if there is a God he'd know a way to prove himself... maybe overriding the laws of physics would be sufficient. Think
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Bevc
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4024 on: June 02, 2012, 01:20 PM »
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So you talking spirituality?  I find the spirit world interesting but not in a religious way.

And as I said, a lot of people don't need the proof to believe and live quite happily and there are those that don't believe and again live quite happily.
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4025 on: June 02, 2012, 01:45 PM »
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You've lost me... I didn't realise I mentioned anything about spirituality dontknow
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iamabritt
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4026 on: June 02, 2012, 02:28 PM »
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Yes - a life after this sounds quite appealing to me but do I want a God as described by Christianity, no.
In other words you are asking me, "Are you a rational person?". Yes I do need strong evidence but now I'm left wondering what that could be. But surely if there is a God he'd know a way to prove himself... maybe overriding the laws of physics would be sufficient. Think
Just look around you surely you can see a hand in all of the beauty,as for the bad stuff ,God gives us a free will ,he didn't want puppets.
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4027 on: June 02, 2012, 02:29 PM »
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Just look around you surely you can see a hand in all of the beauty
There's plenty of ugly stuff in nature as well though. Of course, I assume we're both talking about aesthetics.

The real beauty is in the complexity of life and thankfully not only do we understand how it works but more importantly how it got there without need for God.
[ Last edit by Mark June 02, 2012, 02:34 PM ] IP Logged
iamabritt
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4028 on: June 02, 2012, 02:31 PM »
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There's plenty of ugly stuff in nature as well though.
Mark you will have to wait until Jesus comes back and then the Lion will lay down with the lamb.
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Mark
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4029 on: June 02, 2012, 02:38 PM »
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God gives us a free will
Apart from free will for supposedly the most important aspect in life, whether we choose to follow him. There's no genuine free will there - Jesus encourages you to follow him but with a gun to your head in case you don't.

But that issue is if you actually believe he exists. If you are unfortunate enough to have not been convinced of it due to lack of evidence - he'll also see fit to pull that trigger for eternity making sure you don't die from it but at least feel the pain.

What a nice young man.
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Bevc
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4030 on: June 02, 2012, 02:52 PM »
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You've lost me... I didn't realise I mentioned anything about spirituality dontknow

Life after death, in the spirit world?

A modern secular definition: "Spirituality exists wherever we struggle with the issues of how our lives fit into the greater scheme of things. This is true when our questions never give way to specific answers or give rise to specific practices such as prayer or meditation. We encounter spiritual issues every time we wonder where the universe comes from, why we are here, or what happens when we die. We also become spiritual when we become moved by values such as beauty, love, or creativity that seem to reveal a meaning or power beyond our visible world. An idea or practice is "spiritual" when it reveals our personal desire to establish a felt-relationship with the deepest meanings or powers governing life." - Robert C. Fuller


I'm trying to remember what a clairvoyant told me about the spirit world - oh, she was very accurate with some of the things she did tell me, like the house we currently live in and the jobs I've done/do.

Found this too.

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/articles/id/spiritualresearch/spiritualscience/afterdeath
[ Last edit by Bevc June 02, 2012, 03:03 PM ] IP Logged
Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4031 on: June 02, 2012, 03:14 PM »
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There's plenty of ugly stuff in nature as well though. Of course, I assume we're both talking about aesthetics.

The real beauty is in the complexity of life and thankfully not only do we understand how it works but more importantly how it got there without need for God.

But how would you know what's beautiful if there's nothing ugly around? What would be the measurement here to define what is truly beautiful?

Anyway, I don't think God will stand before you or take you on a ride just to make sure that you believe in him. The Universe has a much bigger purpose than that but most importantly, the elements/clues are there for you to figure it out for yourself. If you can't then there's no point of your being and you are not much different than those animals that aren't given any intellect and reasoning ability if you know what I mean.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4032 on: June 02, 2012, 03:16 PM »
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But how would you know what's beautiful if there's nothing ugly around? What would be the measurement here to define what is truly beautiful?

Anyway, I don't think God will stand before you or take you on a ride just to make sure that you believe in him. The Universe has a much bigger purpose than that but most importantly, the elements/clues are there for you to figure it out for yourself. If you can't then there's no point of your being and you are not much different than those animals that aren't given any intellect and reasoning ability if you know what I mean.


What makes you think life has a purpose?
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Emma Jean
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4033 on: June 02, 2012, 03:33 PM »
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What makes you think life has a purpose?

Pretty much everything. Everything in life has a purpose/goal as I see it. Two players play a competitive match to win. The goal is to win and the prize is money and honour. It's also the purpose. A door has its purpose. It closes and shuts it for you and that's just an object. A being with intellect and reasoning ability has a much bigger goal/purpose. For example, If you asked me out on a date, there would be a purpose behind and you can't deny it. And that's just a small element of things. We don't do anything without a reason and a purpose. And the Universe as a whole has much, much bigger purpose.
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4034 on: June 02, 2012, 03:39 PM »
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Pretty much everything. Everything in life has a purpose/goal as I see it. Two players play a competitive match to win. The goal is to win and the prize is money and honour. It's also the purpose. A door has its purpose. It closes and shuts it for you and that's just an object. A being with intellect and reasoning ability has a much bigger goal/purpose. For example, If you asked me out on a date, there would be a purpose behind and you can't deny it. And that's just a small element of things. We don't do anything without a reason and a purpose. And the Universe as a whole has much, much bigger purpose.

Those purposes are subjective. We create purpose for ourselves. I'm talking about objective purpose. In other words, a reason for our being here.

Once you accept materialism, purposelessness in an objective sense is the only logical conclusion. If you don't subscribe to materialism, do you believe part of us is immaterial? And if so, what part and how do you define it (a soul, for example)?
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