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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (46.7%)
No (atheist) - 30 (40%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 10 (13.3%)
Total Voters: 74

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Religious Discussions

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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4155 on: November 16, 2012, 12:37 PM »
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It is awareness of and response to an environmental stimulus  is it not?                                                         

The atoms in ice vibrate more. This increase in vibration of atoms IS a rise in temperature. As the atoms vibrate, some bonds are broken, leading to a phase, liquid, where the molecules are less rigidly bound.

It's a mechanistic process, like a weight on the end of a string breaking the string. Describing the ice as aware adds nothing to the description and so this purported "awareness" is a label empty of content.
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Caz
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I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4156 on: November 16, 2012, 01:15 PM »
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Nicely explained Dave! Thanks!
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4157 on: November 16, 2012, 01:34 PM »
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I like this DaveH fella.
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scotnadian
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You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4158 on: November 16, 2012, 01:54 PM »
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The atoms in ice vibrate more. This increase in vibration of atoms IS a rise in temperature. As the atoms vibrate, some bonds are broken, leading to a phase, liquid, where the molecules are less rigidly bound.

It's a mechanistic process, like a weight on the end of a string breaking the string. Describing the ice as aware adds nothing to the description and so this purported "awareness" is a label empty of content.
I like this DaveH fella.
  Smile
Dave, meet Clydey.
Clydey, meet Dave.

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scotnadian
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You (still) ain't seen nothing yet..

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4159 on: November 16, 2012, 01:56 PM »
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We are our brain, so yes. The absence of the body would have fewer consequences than you might think.
I can think of several consequences of not having a body. There's certain parts of me I would definitely miss, and certain parts of my hubbster's I'd miss too. Ahem..
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Sabine
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^_^

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4160 on: November 16, 2012, 02:20 PM »
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So you are Muslim? Like me? aha!  hug

Hey, you too? hug
Didn't seem so with your name...
Converted or what?
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Sabine
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^_^

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4161 on: November 16, 2012, 02:22 PM »
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Zarfeen.......You are 14?

Yup, you seem to be very surprised???? Why?
[ Last edit by ZARFEEN15 November 16, 2012, 02:26 PM ] IP Logged
Caz
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I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4162 on: November 16, 2012, 07:26 PM »
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I can think of several consequences of not having a body. There's certain parts of me I would definitely miss, and certain parts of my hubbster's I'd miss too. Ahem..
Dirty girl!  Very Happy
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4163 on: November 16, 2012, 07:45 PM »
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I can think of several consequences of not having a body. There's certain parts of me I would definitely miss, and certain parts of my hubbster's I'd miss too. Ahem..

I mean consequences for the mind. In other words, you are your brain. The body is basically a vehicle.
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Fiverings
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Andy Murray - Tennis Legend

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4164 on: November 17, 2012, 12:31 PM »
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The atoms in ice vibrate more. This increase in vibration of atoms IS a rise in temperature. As the atoms vibrate, some bonds are broken, leading to a phase, liquid, where the molecules are less rigidly bound.

It's a mechanistic process, like a weight on the end of a string breaking the string. Describing the ice as aware adds nothing to the description and so this purported "awareness" is a label empty of content.
  I don't see any of that differs in principle from consciousness. If you are actually thinking of awareness, interpretation and response, that is still a matter of degree. I argue that there is a continuum of consciousness, and certainly we can define boundaries, but this/not this is both the strength and weakness of the human perception of reality.
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Caz
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I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4165 on: November 17, 2012, 02:29 PM »
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Fiverings.......I can't claim to understand how ice, snow, sand ect. could be 'concious' or have 'awareness', in fact, I've never even considered it, but what I 'do' know, is that reality is not as we perceive it and that if we only understood how it works, any one of us are quite capable of passing through a brick wall! It's all to do with 'vibrations' right? However, you'd be wasting your time if you tried to convince most of the people on here.......too many closed minds! If you know how it works though.......I'm all ears!
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4166 on: November 17, 2012, 03:12 PM »
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  I don't see any of that differs in principle from consciousness. If you are actually thinking of awareness, interpretation and response, that is still a matter of degree. I argue that there is a continuum of consciousness, and certainly we can define boundaries, but this/not this is both the strength and weakness of the human perception of reality.

It differs in principle from consciousness in that there is NOTHING in the description of ice melting that requires the ice to be aware. I have explained how ice melts in terms of unaware atoms, a mechanistic, unconscious process. Whereas, a description of a human being is lacking if it does not include the fact that they are aware of themselves and of an external world.

You can state that there is a continuum of consciousness, but you cannot argue that there is, since you have no evidence with which to make your argument. Any belief that ice or rocks are conscious is irrational. There is literally no reason to hold such a belief.

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certainly we can define boundaries, but this/not this is both the strength and weakness of the human perception of reality.

Since no human is capable of anything other than a human perception of reality, it is pointless trying to suggest anything else.
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DaveH
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4167 on: November 17, 2012, 03:13 PM »
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any one of us are quite capable of passing through a brick wall!

You seriously believe this? Why?
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Clydey
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4168 on: November 17, 2012, 03:32 PM »
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Fiverings.......I can't claim to understand how ice, snow, sand ect. could be 'concious' or have 'awareness', in fact, I've never even considered it, but what I 'do' know, is that reality is not as we perceive it and that if we only understood how it works, any one of us are quite capable of passing through a brick wall!

Sure, we can pass through a brick wall. We'd need some tools, though, otherwise it would be a pretty painful experience.

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'vibrations' right? However, you'd be wasting your time if you tried to convince most of the people on here.......too many closed minds! If you know how it works though.......I'm all ears!

I'll paraphrase an old saying for you.

Our minds are not closed, but nor are they so open that our brains fall out.
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Caz
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I'd like to be the good person my dog thinks I am!

Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4169 on: November 17, 2012, 03:59 PM »
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Fiverings..........See what I mean?
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