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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (46.7%)
No (atheist) - 30 (40%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 10 (13.3%)
Total Voters: 74

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Religious Discussions

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laundry
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4905 on: June 01, 2013, 10:08 PM »
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The fear of social rejection is another powerful reason why people are scared to reject the religion they were brought up with. Also the inability to accept that they (or their parents) were wrong or that they have wasted their time, effort or money even on something that's wrong.
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4906 on: June 01, 2013, 10:10 PM »
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I'm disappointed Dawkins didn't mention the irony of the evolutionary analogy though :X
I imagine I'm about on a par with him as far as certainty goes. It's a little hard to get the correct thought across but it's just kind of obvious to me. I can't help thinking that if it was hypothetically possible for me to somehow get 'transported into the mind' of a theist and see things exactly the way they do then come back into my own mind again but retain the knowledge, thoughts, experiences and logical perception of religion that they had -  that my certainty of atheism would not waver in the slightest, regardless of any theistic mindset I could enter. However if the process was reversed and a theist could see things exactly like I do, and retain my logical perception of it in a way that they was able to still understand it in the same way that I do; I think there might be a fair amount of wavering on the counterpart.

So, I don't know, given that statement I just made you made might want to use the word 'arrogant' towards me lol. But to be honest I don't particularly care about religion much any more, nowadays I more or less just dismiss it and don't consider it worth talking about but I still get sucked into conversations about it occasionally; old habits die hard and I suppose it's still fun sometimes. Yeah I think I just made myself sound even more arrogant there lol, digging a hole, I better stop speaking.  shutup

I think I understand your point. I suspect, as an atheist, you think your 'evidence-based' logic would 'protect' you in the mind of a theist, but in the reverse situation, the theist would be bound to see this logic and have no option but to dismiss their 'illogical' faith. Or something.......er.....?

I'm disappearing up my own backside here pullhair
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4907 on: June 01, 2013, 10:12 PM »
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The fear of social rejection is another powerful reason why people are scared to reject the religion they were brought up with. Also the inability to accept that they (or their parents) were wrong or that they have wasted their time, effort or money even on something that's wrong.
True. Religion has also become a cultural norm. I know many people who attend various churches but aren't even slightly religious - many by their own admission.
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4908 on: June 01, 2013, 10:19 PM »
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I haven't lost my fear of hell and I'm an atheist. That's just me though but I think it's generally very powerful to be brought up with that as a truth.

I was brought up with hell as a truth but it never bothered me much.     What kept me on the straight and narrow was the fear of my mother rather than hell.   
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4909 on: June 01, 2013, 10:22 PM »
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Hell ? Burning damnation for all eternity ? Surely cruel and unusual punishment !
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4910 on: June 01, 2013, 10:27 PM »
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I think I understand your point. I suspect, as an atheist, you think your 'evidence-based' logic would 'protect' you in the mind of a theist, but in the reverse situation, the theist would be bound to see this logic and have no option but to dismiss their 'illogical' faith. Or something.......er.....?
Pretty much. When you travel around the world and see that it isn't in fact flat it's quite hard to keep convincing yourself that it is.

True. Religion has also become a cultural norm. I know many people who attend various churches but aren't even slightly religious - many by their own admission.
I was thinking more about their parents or other immediate family rejecting them but religious groups factor in too I'm sure, especially in other cultures. I mean if my mother was like this I might be a bit scared of rejecting God:

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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4911 on: June 01, 2013, 10:31 PM »
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Pretty much. When you travel around the world and see that it isn't in fact flat it's quite hard to keep convincing yourself that it is.
I was thinking more about their parents or other immediate family rejecting them but religious groups factor in too I'm sure, especially in other cultures. I mean if my mother was like this I might be a bit scared of rejecting God:


Especially around Christmas !
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4912 on: June 01, 2013, 10:38 PM »
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Propaganda comes from both sides apparently.   I think I'd rather believe in God than share a bed (metaphorically speaking) with whoever made that clip,
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4913 on: June 01, 2013, 10:41 PM »
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Hell ? Burning damnation for all eternity ? Surely cruel and unusual punishment !

As children we were told that hell was not being in the presence of God.    It would be a bit like being the only MWer not allowed in to the CC at Wimbledon to watch our Andy win the final.
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4914 on: June 01, 2013, 10:43 PM »
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I think I'd rather believe in God than share a bed (metaphorically speaking) with whoever made that clip,
That's a valid point but worth mentioning in America it's not uncommon for parents to throw their children out on the street for being an atheist. Some of these parents really are vile due to their beliefs.

I was brought up with hell as a truth but it never bothered me much.
That shows a lack of imagination and I envy it.
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4915 on: June 01, 2013, 10:46 PM »
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As children we were told that hell was not being in the presence of God.    It would be a bit like being the only MWer not allowed in to the CC at Wimbledon to watch our Andy win the final.

lmao love the analogy!
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4916 on: June 01, 2013, 10:49 PM »
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As children we were told that hell was not being in the presence of God.    It would be a bit like being the only MWer not allowed in to the CC at Wimbledon to watch our Andy win the final.
Cruel and unusual indeed !

When I was a child, hell was referred to as 'the bad fire' (sweet) and I remember telling my younger cousin, who had used a mild swear word, that she'd go to the bad fire. She immediately began crying in obvious fear. Although I was only a kid myself, I felt terrible then and, thinking about it some 40-odd years later, I feel terrible again. It's a hateful threat to make to kids.
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4917 on: June 01, 2013, 10:56 PM »
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When I was a child, hell was referred to as 'the bad fire' (sweet) and I remember telling my younger cousin, who had used a mild swear word, that she'd go to the bad fire. She immediately began crying in obvious fear. Although I was only a kid myself, I felt terrible then and, thinking about it some 40-odd years later, I feel terrible again. It's a hateful threat to make to kids.
It's no exaggeration when people refer to it as child abuse. It really is a disgusting part of Christianity and other religions.
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4918 on: June 01, 2013, 10:58 PM »
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It's no exaggeration when people refer to it as child abuse. It really is a disgusting part of Christianity and other religions.

the old carrot and stick ploy !
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #4919 on: June 01, 2013, 11:13 PM »
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That shows a lack of imagination and I envy it.
I guess I'm fortunate in that sense that I'm so confident in my conviction, I'm not even a teeny tiny bit worried about the existence of hell. If it's any comfort to you I can assure you that you don't need to be either. And in the hypothetical case that there was a hell you couldn't do anything about it anyway.

There's a little thing called risk reward, where you multiply the detrimental cost of an action by the probability of that action occurring in order to decide whether you should pay a fixed cost to avoid it. Well from my view Pascal's wager can go to hell; even given the pain of the unimaginable torture you would endure in hell forever when it's multiplied by the correct probability you should assign to the chances that following a particular religion over not following that religion will prevent you from going to such a hell it will just come out as 0. Because M*0 always equals 0 and as such it would be a bad decision to pay any cost to try and avoid that risk. If a man could hypothetically offer me a deal where I paid him 1pence and in return he would prevent me from going to hell if it exists in this reality and I hypothetically knew that he could deliver on this deal (and I was somehow blinded by the complete illogical nature of this hypothetical situation so I couldn't derive anything from the situation itself and just had my exact knowledge as of now to base the decision on), I would still honestly consider it a bad deal and not worth the money.

Is this now arrogance to the point of stupidity?
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