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Poll
Question: Do you believe in God?
Yes, there is a God - 35 (47.3%)
No (atheist) - 30 (40.5%)
Unsure (agnostic) - 9 (12.2%)
Total Voters: 73

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Author Topic: Religious Discussions  (Read 70395 times)
eira_arian
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #75 on: August 07, 2007, 09:38 PM »
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I too went to church for 13/4 years of my life, and I came to my own opinions on that basis. But because I'm in choir, I go to CoE evensong every week and it's a very interesting experience...
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Sarah_
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #76 on: August 07, 2007, 09:40 PM »
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Oh okay... Fair enough... Do you believe in God?

No.
I believe in something, but at 16 I'm sure I'll come to my own conclusions some point in life, I don't believe that when you die that is it final, but I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

I too went to church for 13/4 years of my life, and I came to my own opinions on that basis. But because I'm in choir, I go to CoE evensong every week and it's a very interesting experience...

In my R.E class my teacher told me that it is usually people who have attended church previously that often have the strongest views against the religion.
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ljsmall
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #77 on: August 08, 2007, 12:33 AM »
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I think that's refering more to praying about world conditions, so that Christians could be free to practice their religion, not necessarily praying that Bush makes good desicions in Iraq, but that Bush doesn't make it so that all muslims, everywhere, hate Christianity... See what I'm saying?

Also Lorna, you brought out that we need to take things in context, so as far as Romans 3:31 goes, if you start at verse 27 it becomes clearer. More or less says that we're under the law of faith, not the OT laws. Actually, if you read the whole chapter, everything Paul was saying makes a lot more sense...

I'm sorry David. but I actually find that just a little bit patronising. Are you suggesting that i haven't read Romans the whole chapter? I think you'll find that I have read that chapter, i have studied deeply the whole book of Romans and it's pretty complex in it's themes. And as such i don't agree with you. If you want to discuss this one out PM me cause I don't think it belongs here, neither does the Christianity vs science discussion (HOW many times have we had that one!)

Oh, and incidentally, I think you misunderstood me on the praying for our leaders thing. i don't think we are expected to know how to pray for our leaders (i.e. policy decisions etc) but in this verse we are invited to pray that our leaders will be blessed with knowledge and wisdom that comes from God that we might live in a country that is led by God's wishes and desires for his people.

And yeah, actually I think this extends to both the points you make actually. Decisions are decisions and the smallest ones can have the largest impact. Neither are mutually exclusive. The decisions bush makes in Iraq are directly related to whether or not the Muslims hate Christianity. So I think this verse talks about both. If you pray over your government and the men in charge you are effectively praying over the fate of Christianity. 

And yes Lorna, it does say in the Bible that we should pay our taxes, but it's not in Romans 15... It's in Mark 12:17 as well as in some of the other Gospels. And as far as 1st Timothy goes, have you got a chapter and verse for that statement?

I didn't mean Matthew. Did get my numbers wrong though. It's Romans 13 1-6.
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Tommy
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #78 on: August 08, 2007, 12:37 AM »
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No.
I believe in something, but at 16 I'm sure I'll come to my own conclusions some point in life, I don't believe that when you die that is it final, but I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

Too bad..
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Sarah_
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #79 on: August 08, 2007, 03:48 PM »
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Too bad..

I don't understand what is too bad?
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eira_arian
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #80 on: August 08, 2007, 06:59 PM »
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I presume it's too bad that you have no belief in Heaven or Hell. Hmmm....
[ Last edit by eira_arian August 08, 2007, 06:59 PM ] IP Logged
Neil
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #81 on: August 09, 2007, 01:00 AM »
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1) The Dispatches Programme is being investigated after a complaint from the police arrived saying they distorted the views of the preachers. Fair enough.

2) I don't think being homosexual is right either, I am not religious, and like david, have gay friends or know a few gay people.

3) I love discussions on religion v science, because there are so many different views on it. The argument of Evolution normally takes on different interpretations of the argument of Genesis. Some believe it's a literal day, and others believe it to be like david, where "day" is just a term used to descirbe a period in which God did stuff.

As for the dinosaurs argument and such, I've heard different arguments on te whole thing. God created every animal, and then created Humans after, God created every animal and humans, then let humans survive the Ice Age etc and it;s just that no remains have been found yet (the most unlikely in my opinion, yet strangely, the view held (i think) by the person I consider to be quite an authority on the Bible), God controls evolution and that's why there are so many species but Humans did not evolve, they are unrelated to other animals, and the same argument but with God controlling the whole evolution process. Obviously, some of these relate directly to the bible, others are, like i say, various Interpretations of how literally you take what it says.....

4)
If you want to discuss this one out PM me cause I don't think it belongs here, neither does the Christianity vs science discussion (HOW many times have we had that one!)


Yes you can as I have renamed the thread. And as for the slightly offended part, I don't think David knew how much of the Bible you had read Smile
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Iain
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #82 on: August 09, 2007, 05:29 AM »
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This has been really interesting. Kudos to David and Lorna's knowledge of the bible. REally impressive.   This is one of the few discussions on a serious topic which hasn't descended into a slanging match. I'm a Christian and church goer but have never read the bible. I hope to one day and feel I should. I must defer to David and Lorna's biblical knowledge. There are some very strong arguments in favour of God and they've held up to a theological battering for centuries. 

I used to be like you Laura. (Although, I've never been a woman w00t) Very liberal and finding fault with the Church when it diverged from Western moral relativist standards. People confuse Christian values with what we believe are correct values. Christianity is big enough to contain the those who take the bible literally and those who take it metaphorically. I think most Christians probably have enough discretion to apply both interpretations to it depending on the passage.  We in the West have allowed Christian values to be diluted by politically correct relativist values. This is a testament to the flexibility of Christians. But there is a limit. We're not going to water it down so we end up not believing in God at all.

It's all very well to lead a good moral lifestyle. But that's not a Christian lifestlye. There will be aspects of the Christian lifestyle but that's not enough. It's not enoughto be a passive Christian either. Actually you need some balls to tell people you go to Church. It's really the rebellious thing to do in this secular society. I actually find a lot of people are intrigued that a young person they know goes to Church. Especially one who likes heavy metal and ogling women.

I think the reason why Christianity seems so alien to modern Britian is because modern Britain has become so permissive. Anything goes and if you object then you're labelled intolerant. Many Christians I know live quite ascetic lifestlyes. They hardly drink and give a large amount of their time and money to charitable causes. They are also very good people with positive dispositions. But because they go about this way of life so quietly no-one ever hears about them and their good deeds.

There is much more that unites Christians than divides. But of course, the media only focus on the schisms. Good deeds don't make the news. Did you know that Warren Buffett donated 30 billion dollars to charities last year? That should have made the headlines for a week.  And he's not even a Christian!
[ Last edit by Iain August 09, 2007, 05:45 AM ] IP Logged
Iain
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #83 on: August 09, 2007, 05:41 AM »
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Excuse my ramble. I should be in bed. I'll just say regarding Britain's permissive culture. Look at the pressure for young people and not so young people to have sex. The more sex the better. But when there are consequences (the reason why we have thesel sexual urges in the first place) people are often shunned as if they've been unlucky or stupid. If a 16 year old has a child or somebody gets an STD where are these same people then to lend support? Having sex is impulsive but the consequences are long-lasting. 

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eira_arian
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #84 on: August 09, 2007, 07:57 AM »
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2) I don't think being homosexual is right either, I am not religious, and like david, have gay friends or know a few gay people.

Just wondering why?

Also - Iain, as always you are the voice of reasoned argument (spent too long reading, and now I'm late for work! Mah!)
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ljsmall
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #85 on: August 09, 2007, 09:56 AM »
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This has been really interesting. Kudos to David and Lorna's knowledge of the bible. REally impressive.   This is one of the few discussions on a serious topic which hasn't descended into a slanging match. I'm a Christian and church goer but have never read the bible. I hope to one day and feel I should. I must defer to David and Lorna's biblical knowledge. There are some very strong arguments in favour of God and they've held up to a theological battering for centuries. 

I used to be like you Laura. (Although, I've never been a woman w00t) Very liberal and finding fault with the Church when it diverged from Western moral relativist standards. People confuse Christian values with what we believe are correct values. Christianity is big enough to contain the those who take the bible literally and those who take it metaphorically. I think most Christians probably have enough discretion to apply both interpretations to it depending on the passage.  We in the West have allowed Christian values to be diluted by politically correct relativist values. This is a testament to the flexibility of Christians. But there is a limit. We're not going to water it down so we end up not believing in God at all.

It's all very well to lead a good moral lifestyle. But that's not a Christian lifestlye. There will be aspects of the Christian lifestyle but that's not enough. It's not enoughto be a passive Christian either. Actually you need some balls to tell people you go to Church. It's really the rebellious thing to do in this secular society. I actually find a lot of people are intrigued that a young person they know goes to Church. Especially one who likes heavy metal and ogling women.

I think the reason why Christianity seems so alien to modern Britian is because modern Britain has become so permissive. Anything goes and if you object then you're labelled intolerant. Many Christians I know live quite ascetic lifestlyes. They hardly drink and give a large amount of their time and money to charitable causes. They are also very good people with positive dispositions. But because they go about this way of life so quietly no-one ever hears about them and their good deeds.

There is much more that unites Christians than divides. But of course, the media only focus on the schisms. Good deeds don't make the news. Did you know that Warren Buffett donated 30 billion dollars to charities last year? That should have made the headlines for a week.  And he's not even a Christian!

Good posting!

I also think that a lot of people are against Christianity because of their perception of it and not for what it actually is. Which I think is a shame because the two are entirely different things. Kudos to Sarah who went to church for years and decided against it. Her decision. But the people who judge christians without really knowing what it's about really bug me.

And can I also say, get reading that bible, it's a good book. Best way is getting yourself into a good bible study. That way you'll get yourself insight into verses that wouldn't necessarily jump off the page at you but does with someone else. And you get the benefit of the knowledge of others while you're at it.
[ Last edit by ljsmall August 09, 2007, 10:02 AM ] IP Logged
ljsmall
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #86 on: August 09, 2007, 10:09 AM »
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Yes you can as I have renamed the thread. And as for the slightly offended part, I don't think David knew how much of the Bible you had read Smile

You just want to see the slagging match, which didn't happen!

I'm not gonna post it without permission but David apologised for the offense, which was accepted and then he went on to explain his arguement in greater detail. Which I still slightly disagreed with but I explained why and that was it. Nice discussion.
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Sarah_
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #87 on: August 09, 2007, 12:22 PM »
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Good posting!

Kudos to Sarah who went to church for years and decided against it. Her decision. But the people who judge christians without really knowing what it's about really bug me.


I certaintly don't do the stereotyping of Christians, and I would never say something like "wierdos" or anything, as members of my family are religous, just thought I'd let you know that... I have background knowledge and I respect your beliefs etc, as everyone can have their beliefs, I just don't share them, but it has a fascinating history I will say that.
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ljsmall
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #88 on: August 09, 2007, 12:34 PM »
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It's not so much the 'weirdos' thing that gets me. I can take that. It's the people that pedal out the mainstream arguments against it without having ever actually looked into it themselves that annoy me. They've heard it said so the use it.

Things like the, oh yeah but what about dinosaurs? When they don't know the next thing about it. The people that when I then tell them that the word dinosaur isn't even 200 years old so of course they wouldn't be. But that if you look at the book of Job, supposed to be the oldest book in the OT (although obviously not recounting the earliest time but it's supposed to slot in early Genisis time period) that there is actually a creature desctibed that sounds like a large beast with a long tail. Those people are pretty surprised and they are the ones that aggrivate me.
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Sarah_
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Re: Religious Discussions « Reply #89 on: August 09, 2007, 12:38 PM »
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I thought that was meant by stereotyping, honestly, with everything there are people who will ask questions, I know I do, people question things, I respect people who have utter faith in what the bible says, but of course there are going to be people who question things without knowing the bible back to front, I think that is what makes life interesting to be honest, not everyone having the same views so something so big as religion is constantly going to be questioned.
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